KX Thameslink Old tunnel

ole man · 3 Oct 2011

swt_passenger said:
As built (1863) it crossed the Hotel Curve just before making a flat junction with the west bound Met/Circle line - the Midland lines were not yet built at the time, and once they were, only a few years later in 1868, the Maiden Lane curve was reported to be filled in. A sketch of the time:

Right looking at that map above, i know what my picture is of.
My picture is of Hotel Curve which is boarded up taken from up/dn moorgate's.
When you walk down york way tunnels,where it splits the first split is the maiden lane curve, which is open at that end,but is so black and has warning's signs of sewerage,and dangerous gases i never found the urge to go down there.
The tunnel carries on from the split and comes out by KX Thameslink,which is york road curve.
Hope i'm right or i'll start get angry

RailUK Forums

talltim · 3 Oct 2011

Another map, very old, which might help people visualise the curves with the above ground structures Note that is from 1874 so before the suburban platforms at Kings cross, also notice how few platforms there are, only the one departure platform too.
http://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/co/GNR/kingsx_map1874.png
Interesting thread, I'de not come across the Maiden Lane curve before, despite previously reading the signal box thread link earlier.

swt_passenger · 3 Oct 2011

talltim said:
Another map, very old, which might help people visualise the curves with the above ground structures Note that is from 1874 so before the suburban platforms at Kings cross, also notice how few platforms there are, only the one departure platform too.
http://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/co/GNR/kingsx_map1874.png
Interesting thread, I'de not come across the Maiden Lane curve before, despite previously reading the signal box thread link earlier.

A very useful addition to my stash of maps and diagrams. Doesn't it highlight the massive importance of goods traffic to the railway at that time...

It also helps to confirm the point that the Maiden Lane Curve had a very short life, (ie 1863-1868) as it is not shown on that map at all, not even as 'disused'.

ole man · 3 Oct 2011

I'm glad we've cleared that up.
My picture is of hotel curve(north tunnel) from the up/dn moorgate.
The split inside york road tunnel is the maiden lane curve, your picture's show a horse inside maiden lane curve tunnel,and the tunnel carrying on to link with the Thameslink Lines, which it still looks like today(minus the horse!!).
I will get picture's of the split this weekend and post them up on here.
One last thing....where was St pancras Signal box?

Bedpan · 4 Oct 2011

ole man said:
This might intrest you, there is a site that has pictures of St Pancras tunnel signal box, in it they mention a illuminated spiral staircase, which they did before all traces of was removed.

THE SIGNAL BOX View topic - St Pancras Tunnel

www.signalbox.org ... Signalling discussion Signalling - historical

Cheers Ole Man, extremely interesting, however did you find that? So it wasn't just a staircase coming down in the middle of nowhere, there was a signal box on the other side! Must have been one of the most uninviting places to work on the entire railway system. I assume the staircase must have been illuminated when I saw it due to preparatory works for the new St Pancras LL station being carried out. It must have been more or less at the south end of the platforms at the new station.

Also, thanks for clarification about Maiden Lane curve, SWT Passenger.

ole man · 4 Oct 2011

Bedpan said:
Cheers Ole Man, extremely interesting, however did you find that? So it wasn't just a staircase coming down in the middle of nowhere, there was a signal box on the other side! Must have been one of the most uninviting places to work on the entire railway system. I assume the staircase must have been illuminated when I saw it due to preparatory works for the new St Pancras LL station being carried out. It must have been more or less at the south end of the platforms at the new station.

Also, thanks for clarification about Maiden Lane curve, SWT Passenger.

Don't worry i think i know where it was, just south of St Pancras station going south there is a cut out in the brick, which has had new LOC boxes put inside, it is big enough and when you walk behind it there is newish brick above you, looks just like the picture in the website above

swt_passenger · 4 Oct 2011

ole man said:
Don't worry i think i know where it was, just south of St Pancras station going south there is a cut out in the brick, which has had new LOC boxes put inside, it is big enough and when you walk behind it there is newish brick above you, looks just like the picture in the website above

I discovered some info about how the signal box was accessed. Apparently the spiral staircase came down to a position on the up side of the tracks, and not even directly across from the signal box. There was also a ventilation shaft vertically above the 'box, and it terminated in a grating in the roadway above, this was under Midland Rd.

Probably acted like a chimney for the smoke and steam, must have been a real fun place to work...

Last 3 posts on this page in the lner.info forum from Jul 2010:

http://www.lner.info/forums/widened-lines-1970s-t3765s45.html

Sounds as though the site must be almost vertically below the south end of Midland Rd.

PS - on page 1 of that thread there's a photo of the north portal of the Hotel Curve, gated off with no track present prior to the redevelopment that I hadn't seen before...

carat 3.6 amg · 3 Mar 2012

ole man said:
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
My picture is of hotel curve(north tunnel) from the up/dn moorgate.
The split inside york road tunnel is the maiden lane curve, your picture's show a horse inside maiden lane curve tunnel,and the tunnel carrying on to link with the Thameslink Lines, which it still looks like today(minus the horse!!).
I will get picture's of the split this weekend and post them up on here.
One last thing....where was St pancras Signal box?

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but did you take any more pictures of the maiden lane tunnel?

I am very intrested in the widened lines, and the kings cross tunnels in paticular, for a potenial modelling project. I think I have peiced together most of the tunnel layout and positions from various pictures and maps, but just wanted to confirm if the exit from maiden lane curve would have been as close to the entrance of hotel curve as I suspect.

I suspect this picture was taken inside maiden lane curve, looking at the bricked up exit towards st pancrass.

[/IMG]

And this picture looking in the other direction, looking at the split from york road tunnel.(york road tunnel curving away to the right of the picture)

[/IMG]

Bedpan · 3 Mar 2012

Can you say when these pictures were taken, and for what purpose? I get the impression that they are quite recent.

carat 3.6 amg · 4 Mar 2012

Bedpan said:
Can you say when these pictures were taken, and for what purpose? I get the impression that they are quite recent.

The pictures above and the first 2 in this post are from the disused stations website, and are marked as december 2007.

This one is taken in the york road/maiden lane split, looking north towards york road station.

[/IMG]

This was taken from the entrance to york road tunnel looking south.

[/IMG]

This is the exit from hotel curve looking south in 1977.

[/IMG]

And again hotel curve exit in 1991.

[/IMG]

hwl · 5 Mar 2012

talltim said:
Another map, very old, which might help people visualise the curves with the above ground structures Note that is from 1874 so before the suburban platforms at Kings cross, also notice how few platforms there are, only the one departure platform too.
http://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/co/GNR/kingsx_map1874.png
Interesting thread, I'de not come across the Maiden Lane curve before, despite previously reading the signal box thread link earlier.

The ventilation structure in the top of the York Road Tunnel visible on this 1874 map in the corner between York and Pentonville Roads is still visible above ground in the open area outside the Camino spanish restaurant off Pentonville Road (Varnishers Yard). (Accessible without entering the restaurant)

LE Greys · 6 Mar 2012

talltim said:
Another map, very old, which might help people visualise the curves with the above ground structures Note that is from 1874 so before the suburban platforms at Kings cross, also notice how few platforms there are, only the one departure platform too.
http://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/co/GNR/kingsx_map1874.png
Interesting thread, I'de not come across the Maiden Lane curve before, despite previously reading the signal box thread link earlier.

Whoa!

hock:

I knew it used to be complicated, but...

Amazing how little is left and how much it it used. I suppose that King's Cross was right on the edge of London originally, and had a lot of room to spread out, most of which has since been reclaimed for the expanding city.

ole man · 6 Mar 2012

The pictures can't be taken that long ago as it is still the same now, though without the lighting, you can just get a transit van down there.
You can get almost onto the track at KX Thameslink, the first picture isn correct it is bricked up at the far end and is spooky with no lights.
I walked Canal Tunnels not long ago, that is cool.

swt_passenger · 6 Mar 2012

carat 3.6 amg said:
... but just wanted to confirm if the exit from maiden lane curve would have been as close to the entrance of hotel curve as I suspect.

As shown just north of the 'kink' in the green coloured Thameslink tunnel on the attachment to post #21, ie just to the right of the Euston Rd caption.

I'd assume that's pretty accurate as it is a model built for use during the various recent projects in the vicinity.

carat 3.6 amg · 6 Mar 2012

ole man said:
The pictures can't be taken that long ago as it is still the same now, though without the lighting, you can just get a transit van down there.
You can get almost onto the track at KX Thameslink, the first picture isn correct it is bricked up at the far end and is spooky with no lights.
I walked Canal Tunnels not long ago, that is cool.

The first 4 pictures were taken in december 2007, I wonder why they removed the lights again? Is the end of york road tunnel blocked off at the thameslink end or just left open? How far in to maiden lane tunnel can you go?

Thanks.

swt_passenger said:
As shown just north of the 'kink' in the green coloured Thameslink tunnel on the attachment to post #21, ie just to the right of the Euston Rd caption.

I'd assume that's pretty accurate as it is a model built for use during the various recent projects in the vicinity.

I wonder if the hotel curve and maiden lane tunnels had a flat crossing before reaching the main tunnel, or did they both come out in the main tunnel facing each other?

From the plan in post 21 it looks like they would have faced each other, but I have seen this picture and another that looks like they may have crossed?

[/IMG]

table38 · 6 Mar 2012

carat 3.6 amg said:
I wonder if the hotel curve and maiden lane tunnels had a flat crossing before reaching the main tunnel, or did they both come out in the main tunnel facing each other?

The answer may be...

nlogax · 6 Mar 2012

While I can't add anything new, I'd just like to say thanks to all concerned for the maps, photos and various goodies contained in this thread. This part of the rail network has fascinated me for a long time, and it's great to see all this info here. Really good stuff.

A60K · 7 Mar 2012

Interesting, the last image shows the bay platform in the Met/Circle/H+C station at KXSP which was removed by the time the Victoria line opened.

carat 3.6 amg · 7 Mar 2012

table38 said:
The answer may be...

I can only assume that the tunnels did originaly have a flat crossing, but when the 2 extra lines were put in the tunnels were cut back to their present length?

That being the case, the flat crossing would have been where the relay cabinets are standing in ole man's picture? Possibly even the bricked up remains of maiden lane tunnel hidden in the darkness too?

[/IMG]

KX Thameslink Old tunnel

ole man

Member

RailUK Forums

talltim

Established Member

swt_passenger

Veteran Member

ole man

Member

Bedpan

Established Member

ole man

Member

swt_passenger

Veteran Member

carat 3.6 amg

Member

Bedpan

Established Member

carat 3.6 amg

Member

hwl

Established Member

LE Greys

Established Member

ole man

Member

swt_passenger

Veteran Member

carat 3.6 amg

Member

table38

Established Member

nlogax

Established Member

A60K

Member

carat 3.6 amg

Member