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EMT and ToD problems

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RJ

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I decided to purchase some tickets from Southern online on Wednesday this week. I selected a station to collect them from and travelled to that station and duly collected them. The station is operated by EMT. I purchased 4 tickets - a 7DS, a CDR, a SVR and a SDS. They were all under the same ToD reference and should have been printed in one go.

What actually happened was, the CDR printed out ok from one of the TVMs. The TVM then crashed and reset itself. I then tried the several remaining TVMs at the station, including the ToDler machines, but all of them threw up an error message about a technical problem and would not print out the remaining tickets.

I then went to the ticket office. I had to demonstrate to the clerk that the TVMs wouldn't print the ticket and they agreed to help. I provided the card I paid with. The remaining tickets were printed out.

I was compelled to return to the ticket office at the station I collected the tickets from, because there was a problem with the 7 Day Season - it had printed out as a 1 Day Season, which is a ticket type that does not exist. A different clerk was on duty and informed be that apparently, the transaction in which those ToD tickets were printed out had generated a number of non issues after I left the window the previous day, so they had to send the non issues to the accountants without the original tickets. Non issues without the original tickets to go with them generally make auditors hit the roof. They said they were not in a position to sort out the problem ticket because I purchased it from Southern, so now I'm lumbered with a 1 Day Season ticket that I can't use.

ToD isn't my area of expertise. Can anyone shed any light on why these problems happened? Has anyone else had any bizarre tickets print out in place of the actual ticket purchased? If so, how was the problem resolved?
 
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bb21

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I can't help with bizarre tickets being printed as I have never experienced it myself. As for ToD's not printing all the tickets, this seems a frequent occurrence with both the S&B machines and the ToDler machines, and always seems to occur with bookings through WebTIS.

The last time was yesterday, a booking for two tickets paid partly by e-vouchers and partly by card through RSH saw only one ticket printed before I was told that there was no more tickets on that booking. The previous occasion was a ticket paid entirely by card on London Midland, and neither of the two tickets printed. Prior to that was a booking paid entirely by e-vouchers on East Coast, and only one of the two tickets printed. Then before that it was a booking for five tickets paid partly by e-vouchers and partly by card through RSH, and only three tickets printed. There were more problems before that but I can't remember the exact details off the top of my head.

The instances involving RSH and LM were resolved at the ticket office, where staff printed out the remaining tickets for me. The incident involving East Coast could not be resolved as the other ticket simply wasn't on the system for some very odd reason, so I ended up purchasing a new ticket and getting a refund from EC.

Everything seemed so random as to when problems occur and it should be noted that in all the above cases, the machines were working throughout, and didn't crash.

What I did notice yesterday that had never been the case before was that the member of staff printed out some duplicate tickets and got me to sign a credit card slip. Those tickets were then non-issued for some reason. I didn't stay behind to find out exactly what happened next unfortunately.
 

csilke

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I decided to purchase some tickets from Southern online on Wednesday this week. I selected a station to collect them from and travelled to that station and duly collected them. The station is operated by EMT. I purchased 4 tickets - a 7DS, a CDR, a SVR and a SDS. They were all under the same ToD reference and should have been printed in one go.

I was compelled to return to the ticket office at the station I collected the tickets from, because there was a problem with the 7 Day Season - it had printed out as a 1 Day Season.

ToD isn't my area of expertise. Can anyone shed any light on why these problems happened? Has anyone else had any bizarre tickets print out in place of the actual ticket purchased? If so, how was the problem resolved?

It does say on the Southern website "Please note: Weekly season tickets can only be collected from Southern stations". Perhaps your experience explains why.
 

talltim

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Wonder what the EMT RPIs would say if you (RJ specifically) presented them with a 1 day season?
 

maniacmartin

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Well, its very clear there was an issuing error as the Ticket type field still says SEVEN DAY.
I too believed that it was not possible to collect Seasons purchased from Southern from non-Southern TVMs.

Regarding TVM glitches, I've experienced quite a few minor ones, but none as severe as you. On some TVMs, the number of tickets specified on the Collection Receipt includes the receipt itself, and on some it does not.

Booking multiple APs together can result in a shared reservation coupon "only valid with ticket XXXXX" with no reference to the other ticket's number.

Collecting a Plusbus coupon from some S&B machines can also confuse them and make them display the wrong number of tickets on the screen (but print correctly).

ToDler machines will also put a dot after the station name if the fares database has one, in addition to any asterisk padding, whereas other TVMs do not.

And don't forget the incorrect validity codes that some machines (including SWT's new ToDlers) print on tickets.

Some time ago, I also recall WebTIS accepting Solo cards, but some TVMs not being able to read Solo cards so customers being unable to collect tickets.
 

trentside

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Well, its very clear there was an issuing error as the Ticket type field still says SEVEN DAY.
I too believed that it was not possible to collect Seasons purchased from Southern from non-Southern TVMs.

To expand on what csilke has already quoted, the Southern website clearly states that;

Please note: Collection of Weekly Season tickets via Ticket on Departure should only be collected from a Southern station. Collection from a station operated by another Train Operating Company could result in failure to retrieve your tickets or an incorrect expiry date. If you do find that your ticket has failed to print or the details are incorrect, please go to your nearest staffed station for assistance.

The grey area is what they mean by staffed station. Is it a Southern station or any national rail station?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I can't help with bizarre tickets being printed as I have never experienced it myself. As for ToD's not printing all the tickets, this seems a frequent occurrence with both the S&B machines and the ToDler machines, and always seems to occur with bookings through WebTIS.

There do appear to be issues with multiple WebTIS bookings and ToD, but the occurrences seem random. Usually these issues can be resolved immediately at the Ticket Office or, by calling the Web Support team for the relevant booking site and having them re-release the CTR so the booking office can re-print the relevant tickets. Usually this is a fairly quick process.

I've also noticed there seem to be problems with EC rewards tickets, in that they won't accept any card presented - and will continue to ask for the card used in purchase. This again seems to be resolved by calling EC and having them re-set the booking to any card collection. Other times these bookings will work with no issue - certainly I've used RSH vouchers with no issues and collected from S&B TVMs.
 

Paul Kelly

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ToDler machines will also put a dot after the station name if the fares database has one, in addition to any asterisk padding, whereas other TVMs do not.

Interesting! I wonder do they also print a & sign instead of a + for station names that have such a character in them.

Sandwell & Dudley to Jewellery Quarter would be an interesting one to try, as the abbreviation for Jewellery Quarter also varies in different parts of the fares database. If my hunch is right, on "normal" ticket issuing machines this would print as:
Origin: JEWELLRY QUARTER
Destination: SANDWELL + DUDLY

But on Todler it would print as:
Origin: JEWELLERY QUARTR
Destination: SANDWELL & DUDLY

And that sounds like the sort of thing that an inspector with an eagle eye for forged/fake tickets would be looking out for!
 

maniacmartin

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I have bought 2 of the tickets Indigo2 mentioned and will report back tonight with details of how they print
 

RJ

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I can't help with bizarre tickets being printed as I have never experienced it myself. As for ToD's not printing all the tickets, this seems a frequent occurrence with both the S&B machines and the ToDler machines, and always seems to occur with bookings through WebTIS.

The last time was yesterday, a booking for two tickets paid partly by e-vouchers and partly by card through RSH saw only one ticket printed before I was told that there was no more tickets on that booking. The previous occasion was a ticket paid entirely by card on London Midland, and neither of the two tickets printed. Prior to that was a booking paid entirely by e-vouchers on East Coast, and only one of the two tickets printed. Then before that it was a booking for five tickets paid partly by e-vouchers and partly by card through RSH, and only three tickets printed. There were more problems before that but I can't remember the exact details off the top of my head.

The instances involving RSH and LM were resolved at the ticket office, where staff printed out the remaining tickets for me. The incident involving East Coast could not be resolved as the other ticket simply wasn't on the system for some very odd reason, so I ended up purchasing a new ticket and getting a refund from EC.

Everything seemed so random as to when problems occur and it should be noted that in all the above cases, the machines were working throughout, and didn't crash.

What I did notice yesterday that had never been the case before was that the member of staff printed out some duplicate tickets and got me to sign a credit card slip. Those tickets were then non-issued for some reason. I didn't stay behind to find out exactly what happened next unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing that. I also had to sign a credit card receipt at the ticket office. Not quite sure what went wrong but they've always been reluctant to print out tickets purchased online.

It does say on the Southern website "Please note: Weekly season tickets can only be collected from Southern stations". Perhaps your experience explains why.

That was an oversight on my part, missed that paragraph in my haste to buy the tickets. Southern have kindly reimbursed me with an e-voucher to the value of the season ticket. It is a known problem and they have confirmed that any season tickets purchased online from them must be collected from one of their stations.

Wonder what the EMT RPIs would say if you (RJ specifically) presented them with a 1 day season?

Well, I managed to get down to London on Wednesday afternoon, on the Ivanhoe service then the up fast Sheffield from Leicester without my tickets being checked!
 

maniacmartin

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Interesting! I wonder do they also print a & sign instead of a + for station names that have such a character in them.

Sandwell & Dudley to Jewellery Quarter would be an interesting one to try, as the abbreviation for Jewellery Quarter also varies in different parts of the fares database. If my hunch is right, on "normal" ticket issuing machines this would print as:
Origin: JEWELLRY QUARTER
Destination: SANDWELL + DUDLY

But on Todler it would print as:
Origin: JEWELLERY QUARTR
Destination: SANDWELL & DUDLY

And that sounds like the sort of thing that an inspector with an eagle eye for forged/fake tickets would be looking out for!

Your hunch is correct. See the attachment below. The bottom picture is the ToDler.
 

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WillPS

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I have had particular problems regarding the collection of PlusBus tickets from ToDler machines. I have been assured by customer services that these issues have been corrected, but I've not had a chance to try.
 

Paul Kelly

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That's remarkable that there are two flaws (wrong version of station names and validity code printed when it should be the restriction code) on one ticket. When there are such flaws in validly issued tickets, it must make it hard to spot forged ones. The Todler website says it's RSP approved; I wonder what sort of testing the approval process involves.
 

edwin_m

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Thanks for that link - I've been wondering what these Todler machines are! I now recognise them as the ones I learned to avoid at Nottingham as more often than not they would go out of service as soon as a ticket was requested. They are no longer in use at Nottingham due to the station rebuilding.
 

RJ

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I quite like the font used on the tickets printed from the ToDler machines - much neater than that seen on other tickets.
 

trentside

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Thanks for that link - I've been wondering what these Todler machines are! I now recognise them as the ones I learned to avoid at Nottingham as more often than not they would go out of service as soon as a ticket was requested. They are no longer in use at Nottingham due to the station rebuilding.

That's because they have no ticket stock in them - unfortunately, there is no visual indication that they are about to run out of tickets, and so the first you find out is someone telling you the machine is out of service. They also have an annoying habit of chucking out just a collection receipt when they're low on tickets and then locking out the booking so it can't be collected from a ticket office until the machine is reset (as it freezes!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I quite like the font used on the tickets printed from the ToDler machines - much neater than that seen on other tickets.

Got to agree on that, far nicer than the S&B TVMs, they just look a mess.
 

maniacmartin

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They also have an annoying habit of chucking out just a collection receipt when they're low on tickets and then locking out the booking so it can't be collected from a ticket office until the machine is reset (as it freezes!)

Unlike other machines, they always print the collection receipt first, which is a bit odd.
 

causton

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I quite like the font used on the tickets printed from the ToDler machines - much neater than that seen on other tickets.

However, the font is too narrow for reverse text IMO. For example see the ToDler ticket upthread from Jewellery Quarter (or however it was shortened ;) ) and you cannot see the start date clearly at all!
 

bb21

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However, the font is too narrow for reverse text IMO. For example see the ToDler ticket upthread from Jewellery Quarter (or however it was shortened ;) ) and you cannot see the start date clearly at all!

This is one of the bugbears I have with tickets printed in advance of the date of travel.

Why can they not annotate the date in some other format? Underscores, double underscores or even just printing the "A" in reverse text should be sufficient to highlight the fact, leaving the date itself intact. They are indeed very difficult to read in reverse text, even with enlarged fonts from S&B machines sometimes.

Never had this problem before going over to thermal printing.
 

causton

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Another issue I had, I did post about it on the forums I think, was that I had the Potters Bar ticket machines give up on me as they only printed half my order, then ran out of tickets and nobody could successfully retrieve the booking... which was really annoying as First Great Western and First Capital Connect (the former whose site I booked on, the latter who run Potters Bar and Hatfield where I tried to get the rest of the tickets) kept arguing about who was at fault - and kept telling me to buy new tickets and claim the cost back! Which was annoying as I knew there was a way to do it. Anyway, the Potters Bar station manager said he could print them off for me and did it over the phone so I could then pick them up, and they finally printed out.

Which was when I noticed the small bug, which was the reason for this post ;) Despite the odd way they do it, printing out the date the reservation was issued for some reason, the date was printed in reverse text, despite being the current date!

Picture attached :)


20130508_175301-1.jpg
 
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