Future of Romford to Upminster

NSE · 2 Jan 2015

Just having a casual look at the Romford/Upminster branchline on the net and the Wikipedia page (which is why I thought I'd check) suggests it's going to LO operation. Is this the case? Just thought it would've stayed AGA or just be a small additional cross rail branch. Seems like one single isolated section of LO. Unless I've missed something.

Anyway, hopefully someone can shed some light

RailUK Forums

hemsl · 2 Jan 2015

London Reconnections has an excellent post on the subject.

swt_passenger · 2 Jan 2015

Yes it definitely is going to LO in May 2015; it's all part of the same transfer as the West Anglia inner suburbans, announced by TfL in September 2013 IIRC. The Crossrail transfer of the Shenfield route happens at the same time.

Loads of detail in this TfL board paper:

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/c...141210-part-1-item09-west-anglia-transfer.pdf

including:

Hours of operation on the Romford – Upminster branch will be extended so trains operate later on weekdays. A Sunday service will also be introduced on the route from a date currently under negotiation.

matt_world2004 · 2 Jan 2015

Instead of making it London Overground TfL should either integrate it into Crossrail or London Underground. Bolting it onto the end of the district line would be a good idea imo this would allow services to run from romford into central on this route. A one stop shuttle service seems an achronism

387star · 2 Jan 2015

All 315s are unbranded in readiness

Interesting if the repaints continue

90sWereBetter · 2 Jan 2015

Would it be possible to run Upminster-Liverpool Street services, or is there simply no spare capacity west of Romford to do so?

NSE · 2 Jan 2015

Thanks those were an interesting read. I'm aware the WA and Crossrail changeovers coming soon, just thought it was odd going to LO when it could've been like a crossrail shuttle connection. Just seems an isolated island. The district line is a good idea, it's the right side at Upminster. Services could run to Liverpool Street as the track is there, but it has to go onto the fast lines at Romford and then Upminster bound trains would cross on a flat which isn't wanted. Also the documents indicate the line isn't signalled which wouldn't help things

SpacePhoenix · 2 Jan 2015

ml said:
All 315s are unbranded in readiness

Interesting if the repaints continue

If it does go over to LO, will LO use 315s all the time or could they order some new 378s (or something compatible with 378s)?

racyrich · 2 Jan 2015

In my crystal ball I see, in 20 years time, LO taking over c2c Metro services that will start from Upminster/Grays.
The southernmost District platform (3) at Upminster will become the the new mainline down main, the current down main will be a reversing platform. The Romford service and platform will be handed over to the District line.

387star · 2 Jan 2015

SpacePhoenix said:
If it does go over to LO, will LO use 315s all the time or could they order some new 378s (or something compatible with 378s)?

I thought all 315s were being replaced in the next few years

starrymarkb · 2 Jan 2015

SpacePhoenix said:
If it does go over to LO, will LO use 315s all the time or could they order some new 378s (or something compatible with 378s)?

TfL have put out an invitation to tender for the West Anglia replacement stock. I don't think they've made a selection yet.

Class 170101 · 2 Jan 2015

90sWereBetter said:
Would it be possible to run Upminster-Liverpool Street services, or is there simply no spare capacity west of Romford to do so?

Unfortunately the track layout works in that drection but not in the reverse direction, thats why there is no through service.

Busaholic · 2 Jan 2015

90sWereBetter said:
Would it be possible to run Upminster-Liverpool Street services, or is there simply no spare capacity west of Romford to do so?

The stopping service to Stratford and Liverpool Street will double under Crossrail, so what need would be served by extending the Upminster branch? As already posted, it would impede the fast lines at Romford and probably put the mockers on plans for an extra 3tph from Chelmsford which might be possible with improved signalling.

MP33 · 2 Jan 2015

I can remember when the signalling was a double set of semaphore signals at Romford. They were stuck in the same position, go for the branch and stop for the connection with the rest of the Network. I presume that they changed over when the train left the branch at the end of service.

anti-pacer · 3 Jan 2015

matt_world2004 said:
Instead of making it London Overground TfL should either integrate it into Crossrail or London Underground. Bolting it onto the end of the district line would be a good idea imo this would allow services to run from romford into central on this route. A one stop shuttle service seems an achronism

Wouldn't this mean that trains from Romford would have to reverse at Upminster if they continued to Central London and points west as part of an extended District Line?

Also, I can't see many people using this route from Romford into Central London when a perfectly frequent suburban rail service exists and is set to get better under Crossrail.

Is it not possible to extend the Romford to Upminster service further east and linking it with places like Basildon and Southend?

Essexman · 3 Jan 2015

Originally trains ran from Romford to Grays but they line was split in two. (When the District Line extended to Upminster?) It would require major engineering to link with C2C lines. It would be much easier to extend a mile or so to Cranham (end of LT depot), which would be useful locally (especially for me!). There is even a partial connection to LT lines which was put in when the line was to be used for moving LT stock for refurbishment, but not completed when another route was chosen.

Over the years there has been talk of a 20 minute service, one or two extra halts, Cranham extension & conversion to trams. A station to serve Havering 6th Form College was considered and would be useful.

matt_world2004 · 3 Jan 2015

anti-pacer said:
Wouldn't this mean that trains from Romford would have to reverse at Upminster if they continued to Central London and points west as part of an extended District Line?

Also, I can't see many people using this route from Romford into Central London when a perfectly frequent suburban rail service exists and is set to get better under Crossrail.

Is it not possible to extend the Romford to Upminster service further east and linking it with places like Basildon and Southend?

Running the district line on the Romford Shuttle would require a junction to be built and one district line being diverted down it every 30 minutes. This would not provide a noticeable decrease in service on the District to Upminster especially if there was always one district line stock on the Romford line and this was matched by a corresponding increase in S-Stock numbers.

306024 · 3 Jan 2015

Essexman said:
Over the years there has been talk of a 20 minute service, one or two extra halts, Cranham extension & conversion to trams. A station to serve Havering 6th Form College was considered and would be useful.

This would indeed be the best scheme if it could be made to stack up financially. Any ideas of trains running onto the GEML at Romford are complete non starters.

NSE · 3 Jan 2015

Due to its truncated nature it's only really possible to extend with the district line without incurring a huge cost of junctions etc. LO have been good news so far so let's hope it carries on. I'd be interested to see the stock chosen for the route, having one unit quite a way from LO depots

Busaholic · 3 Jan 2015

How about Romford to Gospel Oak via Barking?!

anti-pacer · 3 Jan 2015

If Romford were ever to become part of the LU network, how about extending the Central Line from Newbury Park along the line of Eastern Avenue to Romford station via Romford town centre?

I think if Crossrail hadn't have been going ahead, this might have been a good idea.

jopsuk · 3 Jan 2015

At the moment, for those that don't read LR, it's being made part of the LO West Anglia operation as that will be using 4 car, 80m, units. Crossrail will be getting 200m 9 car units- as I understand these wouldn't, there's no appetite to make them fit and no chance in this lifetime of through Crossrail services on the branch. So operating it as an outlier of LO makes some sense- the new fleet will also be shared with the GOBLIN.

samuelmorris · 4 Jan 2015

As far as I'm aware, the line should be considered part of the West Anglia metro services from Liverpool Street - oddly. Shared rolling stock fleet (including when the 315/317s are replaced with new units), service frequency, takeover date etc. Even though Overground seems out of place without any other overground services connecting it, the way the line is being managed means overground makes the most sense - the connection to Crossrail at Romford makes it a little less tenuous.

mr_jrt · 4 Jan 2015

Years ago I mused on how you could improve things here, and I settled on a a double track diveunder, with the District cut back to two platforms, creating a passing loop in the platforms and through the diveunder. The diagram shown here is for the slightly different single-platform variation.

...though, in hindsight, I guess you could retain the connections and just timetable the District services using the platform to not conflict with the NR services...

Future of Romford to Upminster

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