DelayRepay
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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress
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Do the doors work though?
Ooops, wrong thread.
Last edited:
asylumxl
Established Member
Were working when I travelled.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, they opened easily (probably as I was outside the core).Do the doors work though?
westcoaster
Established Member
I passed man units today, and not one had the pis working.
Class377/5
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Reports from multiple drivers they haven't been given the correct PIS codes on their diagrams.
My 700 in this morning was working correctly as I was watching the train loading info on the screens.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Saw most workings this morning before work and finished when what was meant to be the 09.42 LBG - BTN (?1B15) pass me around 1hr 30 late. Did this pick up the diagram later in the day? (unit 700114)
Goldfish62
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Eh? Have you actually seen the interior photos?
sounds like the train doesn't like being turned off and back on due to the neutral section
RobShipway
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They had the the voice announcements working, but not the pls it looked like it was switched off.
Chris125
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Yes, sorry if I wasn't clearer but that's my point - as they already feature longitudinal seating it will be tempting to increase this further if/when capacity and dwell times become an issue at the expense of the 2+2, potentially delaying the need for extra and longer trains.
Tbh I'm surprised they didn't go for the S8 layout from the outset, that would seem a more sensible compromise between transverse and longitudinal.
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Is this post about class 700s or class 345s?
asylumxl
Established Member
I think it's fair to compare two trains designed for a similar mix of usage.
trainmania100
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Hi are any units on weekend services yet? If not I'll get the bus to Crawley / three bridges
Thanks
Thanks
Class377/5
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No. 13th August is a possible start date (that week is the next step up), however it'll be a single unit initially.
For Brighton Pride on Saturday 6th August
(501)
5Y03 04+52 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W03 05.20 Bedford to Brighton
1W14 08.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W31 10.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W44 13.55 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W51 17.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y62 22+45 Bedford to Jowett Sidings
I've just updated the 'soft launch timetable'.
View attachment 700_soft_launch_30_7.pdf
One small inconsistency, 2W44 is shown as 13:59 in the current timetable as well as RTT (for 6th Aug). I've put those times in rather than calculating all through.
Class377/5
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Its not a soft launch, its a one off run for that one Saturday only to help with crowds for Brighton Pride. The following weekend will see NO 700s.
The future 700 diagram comes from Three Bridges anyway.
The future 700 diagram comes from Three Bridges anyway.
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southern442
Established Member
I had my first ride on one on Thursday. Here are my thoughts:
- The annoucements were either not working or had been turned off, so I didn't get to hear much of that. The information screens impressed me though, lots of different displays.
- Ride quality was pretty good, considering I was sat over a bogie and there are a lot of points between East Croydon and London Bridge.
- Seats weren't that bad. I have been going on about the seats a lot on this thread, I didn't love them but they weren't as uncomfortable as I thought they were going to be. Still quite firm though. I wouldn't have done London to Brighton on it, in the same way that one wouldn't do London to Brighton on a 376. Not enough leg room or width for my liking, and those tables couldn't come sooner in my opinion.
tsr
Established Member
Now I've ridden on some Class 700 services as well, I'm sure you could have predicted that I'd also like to give my opinion on the passenger environment. Bear in mind I work on the railway and spend a good chunk of my time riding trains for a living...
Ride quality: Good between the doors, quite bad over the bogies. A very knowledgeable driver I was with on one train was quite concerned about the vibration and sway, with plenty of unpredictable motion in all directions. By contrast, the same driver and I went over the same junctions the next day on a 442 and barely noticed them (and we all know how I don't particularly like 442s for a number of other reasons!).
Noise: I found the units to be impressively quiet inside. I also found that less noise than I expected carried through from adjacent carriages.
Aircon: Fairly average in terms of how cool it was getting the train on some warm summer days. The windows seemed to let in more warmth than on most other modern stock. Maybe UV and other window treatments have had to change for some reason. Sitting in the aisle seats was a lot more pleasant. It also felt cooler near the doors, which I guess may have been a symptom of the system reacting to warm air entering, but was also a nice welcome onboard.
Visual ambience: Very modern and pleasant. The windows seem to let in a good level of natural light with the lighting feeling very well-designed in tunnels and in cuttings. It seemed that all areas of the saloon were illuminated very evenly. That said, I haven't ridden one of these in cold weather or pitch darkness, when my opinions may change!
Materials and fabrics: These felt much nicer than I expected. Although the moquette felt hard-wearing, I preferred it to many other trains, including the variants of astroturf Southern like to use. I felt that the simpler designs like the First Class door were actually enhanced by a feeling of being built from good-quality stuff.
PIS: The level of information was good, though I'll be interested to see how this develops, as many of the ideas (eg. Tube status/service updates/pre-recorded CCTV messages) have already been trialled successfully on other GTR stock anyway. Most of the time it worked, though some screens or announcements lagged behind eventually. I understand that various modules are having to be reset by onboard Siemens engineers on a slightly-too-regular basis, but overall the system is working better and better as time goes on. My thoughts were that the graphics were good, but some of the text on the busier screens just felt a little too small for some passengers to see from the furthest relevant point. The announcements were clear but the "Mind the gap" really needs to play slightly before passengers alight.
Seating quality: Surprisingly good in Standard class. I preferred these seats to those I have regularly used in newer 377s and the 387s. I liked the level and feel of the padding. Obviously the design means they didn't feel too relaxing, but perfectly suited for those wishing to read or work. Sadly this is offset by a lack of tables, though I understand those are coming in one form or another. Legroom felt adequate though the minimum to achieve that. I can understand this, though. Seat pitch felt excellent wherever I sat. However, my massive bugbear was First Class. I can only describe these seats as feeling like I was sitting on a scarf stretched over corrugated cardboard, mounted on concrete. The pitch felt uncomfortable (not sure if this was because I was behind the driver's cab). It just felt disappointing. The power sockets under the seats felt hard to locate even though there is a sticker, because a coat or armrest can obscure their view.
Toilets: Pass (pardon the pun), haven't had the chance to look around except in the mockup a few years ago.
Safety: Possibly something overlooked by some commentators on here. I found the safety instructions, egress handles and fire extinguishers much easier to spot than on some other stock. Obviously this does lead to potential for misuse, but I think it is better "for the greater good". The design of the safety instructions seemed clear. I also liked the way the safety equipment cupboards have plenty of space around them to remove equipment (something not found on any stock I sign).
Crowd control and luggage: Very good to a degree. I think people were much happier to stroll down inside the train and look for space to sit. Sadly I don't think they actually found many spare seats, and certainly none with any illusion of privacy. Luggage seemed to end up roughly near or on the racks, and those seemed well-designed, with the minimum of fitments to get in the way of the actual luggage. I like having more space either side of the doors; it will probably get misused for luggage space rather than standing room, but I actually think that helps with safety compared with more cramped vestibule designs in times past.
So there you go. A few surprises for me (especially the Standard seating) which I liked, and a few which I didn't. Based on the mockup, I'm not overly surprised about First Class... but put it this way, a lot fewer train crew are sitting in there because it's less comfortable. Is this some sort of conspiracy or something?
Ride quality: Good between the doors, quite bad over the bogies. A very knowledgeable driver I was with on one train was quite concerned about the vibration and sway, with plenty of unpredictable motion in all directions. By contrast, the same driver and I went over the same junctions the next day on a 442 and barely noticed them (and we all know how I don't particularly like 442s for a number of other reasons!).
Noise: I found the units to be impressively quiet inside. I also found that less noise than I expected carried through from adjacent carriages.
Aircon: Fairly average in terms of how cool it was getting the train on some warm summer days. The windows seemed to let in more warmth than on most other modern stock. Maybe UV and other window treatments have had to change for some reason. Sitting in the aisle seats was a lot more pleasant. It also felt cooler near the doors, which I guess may have been a symptom of the system reacting to warm air entering, but was also a nice welcome onboard.
Visual ambience: Very modern and pleasant. The windows seem to let in a good level of natural light with the lighting feeling very well-designed in tunnels and in cuttings. It seemed that all areas of the saloon were illuminated very evenly. That said, I haven't ridden one of these in cold weather or pitch darkness, when my opinions may change!
Materials and fabrics: These felt much nicer than I expected. Although the moquette felt hard-wearing, I preferred it to many other trains, including the variants of astroturf Southern like to use. I felt that the simpler designs like the First Class door were actually enhanced by a feeling of being built from good-quality stuff.
PIS: The level of information was good, though I'll be interested to see how this develops, as many of the ideas (eg. Tube status/service updates/pre-recorded CCTV messages) have already been trialled successfully on other GTR stock anyway. Most of the time it worked, though some screens or announcements lagged behind eventually. I understand that various modules are having to be reset by onboard Siemens engineers on a slightly-too-regular basis, but overall the system is working better and better as time goes on. My thoughts were that the graphics were good, but some of the text on the busier screens just felt a little too small for some passengers to see from the furthest relevant point. The announcements were clear but the "Mind the gap" really needs to play slightly before passengers alight.
Seating quality: Surprisingly good in Standard class. I preferred these seats to those I have regularly used in newer 377s and the 387s. I liked the level and feel of the padding. Obviously the design means they didn't feel too relaxing, but perfectly suited for those wishing to read or work. Sadly this is offset by a lack of tables, though I understand those are coming in one form or another. Legroom felt adequate though the minimum to achieve that. I can understand this, though. Seat pitch felt excellent wherever I sat. However, my massive bugbear was First Class. I can only describe these seats as feeling like I was sitting on a scarf stretched over corrugated cardboard, mounted on concrete. The pitch felt uncomfortable (not sure if this was because I was behind the driver's cab). It just felt disappointing. The power sockets under the seats felt hard to locate even though there is a sticker, because a coat or armrest can obscure their view.
Toilets: Pass (pardon the pun), haven't had the chance to look around except in the mockup a few years ago.
Safety: Possibly something overlooked by some commentators on here. I found the safety instructions, egress handles and fire extinguishers much easier to spot than on some other stock. Obviously this does lead to potential for misuse, but I think it is better "for the greater good". The design of the safety instructions seemed clear. I also liked the way the safety equipment cupboards have plenty of space around them to remove equipment (something not found on any stock I sign).
Crowd control and luggage: Very good to a degree. I think people were much happier to stroll down inside the train and look for space to sit. Sadly I don't think they actually found many spare seats, and certainly none with any illusion of privacy. Luggage seemed to end up roughly near or on the racks, and those seemed well-designed, with the minimum of fitments to get in the way of the actual luggage. I like having more space either side of the doors; it will probably get misused for luggage space rather than standing room, but I actually think that helps with safety compared with more cramped vestibule designs in times past.
So there you go. A few surprises for me (especially the Standard seating) which I liked, and a few which I didn't. Based on the mockup, I'm not overly surprised about First Class... but put it this way, a lot fewer train crew are sitting in there because it's less comfortable. Is this some sort of conspiracy or something?
Last edited:
swt class 450
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I have now ridden on the 700s 14 times (only the 700/1s but not the 700/0s) so i thought i would leave some of my views.
Overall i would say that these trains are very good and by far are much much much better than the 375s/377s/387s. But not quite as good as the 450s. I would say that these are easily the best trains in the GTR fleet (closely followed by the 171s). The 1st class seats are suprisingly very good and luxurious (especially compared to 1st class on the 375s/377s/387s) and have plug sockets and even the std class seats are much better than many other trains as well.
The only negatives are no plug sockets in std class (they are only available in 1st class) and no WIFI and no armrests and tables in std class (but they are available in 1st class).
The announcement systems are very interesting and quite different to most other GTR trains. They are as follows.
1. Female voice. "We will shortly be arriving at ****".
2. Doors open. Three beeps on the exterior. Five beeps on the interior.
3. Male voice. "Please mind the gap between the train and the platform".
4. Female voice. "This station is ****"
5. Female voice. "This train terminates at ****".
6. Female voice. "We will be calling at ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, and ****".
7. Doors close. The usual fast beeping noise as standard on most trains.
8. Female voice. "The next station is ****"
Does anyone know why the door release sound is three beeps on the exterior and five beeps on the interior? Why is it not the same in both the exterior and the interior? Also if you open the doors before the five beeps than it is only three beeps in the interior (as well as the exterior) instead of five beeps.
So that is my overall opinion of the 700s. I have only been on the 700/1s but have not yet been on the 700/0s. It will be interesting to compare the 700/1s to the 700/0s and 707s and 717s when they all enter service.
Overall i would say that these trains are very good and by far are much much much better than the 375s/377s/387s. But not quite as good as the 450s. I would say that these are easily the best trains in the GTR fleet (closely followed by the 171s). The 1st class seats are suprisingly very good and luxurious (especially compared to 1st class on the 375s/377s/387s) and have plug sockets and even the std class seats are much better than many other trains as well.
The only negatives are no plug sockets in std class (they are only available in 1st class) and no WIFI and no armrests and tables in std class (but they are available in 1st class).
The announcement systems are very interesting and quite different to most other GTR trains. They are as follows.
1. Female voice. "We will shortly be arriving at ****".
2. Doors open. Three beeps on the exterior. Five beeps on the interior.
3. Male voice. "Please mind the gap between the train and the platform".
4. Female voice. "This station is ****"
5. Female voice. "This train terminates at ****".
6. Female voice. "We will be calling at ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, and ****".
7. Doors close. The usual fast beeping noise as standard on most trains.
8. Female voice. "The next station is ****"
Does anyone know why the door release sound is three beeps on the exterior and five beeps on the interior? Why is it not the same in both the exterior and the interior? Also if you open the doors before the five beeps than it is only three beeps in the interior (as well as the exterior) instead of five beeps.
So that is my overall opinion of the 700s. I have only been on the 700/1s but have not yet been on the 700/0s. It will be interesting to compare the 700/1s to the 700/0s and 707s and 717s when they all enter service.
OK thanks. I'll leave it there for the time being and add diagrams as the 700s take them over, including the Sutton loop, Sevenoaks and additional BML runs.
When will the next major timetable change occur, will it be after the Canal Tunnel is in use or will there be a retiming for the 700s superior acceleration next May. They should be able to lose a few minutes on the slows on the MML.
I took my first ride on a 700 on Friday taking the 1604 from St Pancras to Bedford.
- Quiet units, ride quality was good.
- Leg room in the airline seats is tight. The seat backs are 'straight' compared to the 365s that have a recess of about an inch in them - this would make the difference!
- The seats are too close together, another inch spacing would make the difference.
- Air con didn't seem to have much 'bite'. Not sure it was working in the 2nd carriage as this one was noticeably warmer than the others.
- The lack of seat back tables is a problem (heard a few passengers commenting on it too). These seat back tables only need to be small as per the 365s but they do need to be retrofitted). Ditto with tables on the bay seats - again the small ones similar to those on the 365s would suffice and would not hinder passenger movement.
- Nice large windows but surprised some hopper windows haven't been provided for air con failures.
- There are not enough bins. Litter was strewn all over the centre of the train. Only half of the doors have bins next to them!
- Toilets are ok. Decent lock mechanism. The water is on a sensor but there is a manual button for the hand drier which cannot be seen by anyone over 5' (and is the same design as a 'door open' button). The passcom in the toilet is placed where you might expect to find the hand drier and I expect it'll get accidentally pressed!
- The door to 1st class is a manual one and quite heavy. Surprised it's not an auto door. - Wheelchairs cannot access 1st class as the door is too narrow.
- Shame there's no carpet but that's progress!
- Quiet units, ride quality was good.
- Leg room in the airline seats is tight. The seat backs are 'straight' compared to the 365s that have a recess of about an inch in them - this would make the difference!
- The seats are too close together, another inch spacing would make the difference.
- Air con didn't seem to have much 'bite'. Not sure it was working in the 2nd carriage as this one was noticeably warmer than the others.
- The lack of seat back tables is a problem (heard a few passengers commenting on it too). These seat back tables only need to be small as per the 365s but they do need to be retrofitted). Ditto with tables on the bay seats - again the small ones similar to those on the 365s would suffice and would not hinder passenger movement.
- Nice large windows but surprised some hopper windows haven't been provided for air con failures.
- There are not enough bins. Litter was strewn all over the centre of the train. Only half of the doors have bins next to them!
- Toilets are ok. Decent lock mechanism. The water is on a sensor but there is a manual button for the hand drier which cannot be seen by anyone over 5' (and is the same design as a 'door open' button). The passcom in the toilet is placed where you might expect to find the hand drier and I expect it'll get accidentally pressed!
- The door to 1st class is a manual one and quite heavy. Surprised it's not an auto door. - Wheelchairs cannot access 1st class as the door is too narrow.
- Shame there's no carpet but that's progress!
Class377/5
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I can't remember the two northern recasts dates but I'm sure it's before May 2018 when the Canal Tunnels start seeing booked passenger services.
As for the diagram, just remove after next weekend then so people on think it's perminate.
Class377/5
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The 377/6, 387 and 700 all use the same seating base but all three have different padding which is what makes it different. How that seat sits also has an affect.
class387
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700 seats definitely feel more padded.
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