East Coast Print@Home

radamfi said:

Although gates could be equipped with barcode readers, like Eurostar

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The gates installed at East Coast stations already have scanners.

transmanche said:

The gates installed at East Coast stations already have scanners.

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Now does that not count as taking a photograph of security equipment?

radamfi said:

Print at home seems to be becoming the standard across our neighbouring countries. Only the UK and Ireland seem to be determined to persevere with TOD as the dominant format, possibly influenced by the proliferation of ticket gates. Although gates could be equipped with barcode readers, like Eurostar, which accommodate print at home.

Belgian and French Railways also offer TOD but also offer print at home. Dutch Railways offer print at home for regular single (non-Advance) tickets. You just have to have some kind of ID, matching the name on the ticket. In fact, I don't know anywhere outside the UK that insists that you have to have the payment card. I don't see why Virgin, XC et al insist on the payment card being presented. It can only lead to problems with lost payment cards, or the potential for cards being replaced by banks on an ad hoc basis, which can happen well before the expiry of the original card.

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I don't know about the others, but EC don't require the payment card for ID. They ask you to select an item from a list. Trouble is when you're booking tickets three months in advance, anything could happen to the item you select in that time.

PaxVobiscum said:

Now does that not count as taking a photograph of security equipment?

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BTP have already been called, so expect a knock on the door... within the next 10 years or so!

With print@home, surely you get a ticket and a barcode and that's it? If you're in that seat on the train, it can be scanned and 'killed'. It's a reserved seat after all. Why would/should the TM/guard/RPI need to see any ID?

If someone else was to get the same ticket (either having intercepted an email, or you had made a copy of it to share or whatever) then there'd be a conflict as two people can't sit in one seat. Then ID can be requested and the other person dealt with as required.

If you sat elsewhere, the first person to get scanned would kill the ticket and so the second person would get 'caught'.. so pretty failsafe, with no need to present anything more than that individual ticket.

When we went on the X2000 in Sweden, we had the tickets scanned and that was it - but on the way back, the lady didn't seem to want to use her scanner (she did later on, so it must have been working) and merely ticked us off her paper list. Keeping it simple seems the best way. It also means someone can print out a ticket, but if they lose it, could get an e-ticket online (say in an email or going to the website from their smartphone, laptop etc) and it would make no difference how many copies of the ticket you had.

Obviously the low tech version of cancelling a scanned barcode is merely to tick off from a list of reservation codes. Seems to work perfectly well for Megatrain and Italian Railways. No ID required.

I'm pretty sure DB insist on the card you have paid with. It has the last 4 digits on the print out and when the guard arrives he scans the ticket and then swipes the credit card. They do, however, give an option asking if you are going to be using the ticket or someone else when you make the initial purchase.

Interestingly when you enquire about a regional trip that suggests you buy the Schoenes Wochenende (Happy Weekend) ticket it prints the route you have planned on bahn.de onto the ticket. Not sure why it does that when the ticket is valid on any regional train for that day.

BorisWiffWaff said:

I'm pretty sure DB insist on the card you have paid with. It has the last 4 digits on the print out and when the guard arrives he scans the ticket and then swipes the credit card. They do, however, give an option asking if you are going to be using the ticket or someone else when you make the initial purchase.

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DB require a bahn.bonus Card, BahnCard, Credit Card, ec-Karte (Maestro) or Identity Card (issued in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands or Switzerland) as ID for Online Tickets, and you can store the relevant details as part of your account info.

Cheers,

Barry

BorisWiffWaff said:

I'm pretty sure DB insist on the card you have paid with. It has the last 4 digits on the print out and when the guard arrives he scans the ticket and then swipes the credit card. They do, however, give an option asking if you are going to be using the ticket or someone else when you make the initial purchase.

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That's not correct. You can specify to use the payment card, another credit card, a BahnCard, some national ID cards, and a few other miscellaneous things.

yorkie said:

Print@Home is best avoided. If you lose your card weeks (perhaps days) in advance, it can be sorted (with some hassle). Lose it on the day, or perhaps a day or two before and you are then down to luck as to whether or not the guard is strict or not. Who wants to be in that situation?

I got a few P@H tickets when they were new. I do not bother now, and will not. I will collect from the TVM. I do not book with XC as they charge for TVM collection.

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If you choose TOD and lose your card on the day or a day or 2 before (assuming you are collecting your tickets on the day of travel) are you not then in the same boat, or is there a way of collecting the tickets without the payment card?

YorkshireRider said:

If you choose TOD and lose your card on the day or a day or 2 before (assuming you are collecting your tickets on the day of travel) are you not then in the same boat, or is there a way of collecting the tickets without the payment card?

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I always collect my tickets a few weeks beforehand (assuming I've booked that far in advance). Leaving it until the day is a bit risky imo.

Bungle73 said:

I always collect my tickets a few weeks beforehand (assuming I've booked that far in advance). Leaving it until the day is a bit risky imo.

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That's what I do too, as I'm paranoid about losing my card in the meantime, but it shouldn't be necessary for the average punter to make a special trip to the station to pick up the ticket. That would make TOD significantly less convenient than print at home.

island said:

That's not correct. You can specify to use the payment card, another credit card, a BahnCard, some national ID cards, and a few other miscellaneous things.

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... and this is no different from the UK situation as your ticket is still tied to one particular identification document specified at the time of booking, without which the ticket is invalid. If that document is lost or stolen between the time of booking and the date of travel then you are stuffed. The only difference in the DB case is that you get to choose which identification document to tie your ticket to, rather than having to use the payment card.

YorkshireRider said:

If you choose TOD and lose your card on the day or a day or 2 before (assuming you are collecting your tickets on the day of travel) are you not then in the same boat, or is there a way of collecting the tickets without the payment card?

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You can survive without the payment card, but you would have to go to the ticket desk, or whatever they call it!!

junglejames said:

You can survive without the payment card, but you would have to go to the ticket desk, or whatever they call it!!

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That won't always be the case. Merseyrail-Land stations cannot issue Trainline-powered bookings. They simply don't have the software at the booking office.

YorkshireRider said:

If you choose TOD and lose your card on the day or a day or 2 before (assuming you are collecting your tickets on the day of travel) are you not then in the same boat, or is there a way of collecting the tickets without the payment card?

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I collect mine in advance, and keep them safe until the day of travel.

If I was to lose my card between the day of booking and the day of collection then I would not anticipate a problem because I nearly always book on the East Coast website, and my outward origin is nearly always an East Coast station. Therefore, the station can access the relevant database and issue the tickets on production of suitable ID. I've only had to do this once and experienced no problems.

If I booked on a Thetrainline-powered site then I may have issues at my local station (though I am unsure). I did once try to get EC (WebTIS) tickets issued at Manchester Piccadilly (Thetrainline/Virgin) however they said they were only able to access Thetrainline database, not the WebTIS database.

My advice is as follows:

1) Find out what system is used for your most convenient station/likely starting point.
2) Book using a website that is compatible with that system
3) Even better, book with the same company who manages that station
4) Obtain tickets in advance of travel and keep them safe, and as soon after booking as possible.
5) Do not use Print@Home
6) Do not book with CrossCountry
7) In some cases, if you want postage, you could buy a ticket from a station without TOD facilities to avoid postage charges (e.g., last time I checked, Poppleton in lieu of York)
8) if you have a choice of stations/booking sites and/or it is not possible to optimise as described above, choose the one that is more likely to be customer friendly (e.g. Southern offer better customer service than SWT, East Coast offer better customer service than EMT, and so on...) and have the least number of complaints about sharp practice. However I appreciate not many people have a choice.

For example a resident of the eastern outskirts of Nottingham who has a car may be better off driving to Newark, and booking with East Coast, and travelling with East Coast. They will experience a better level of customer service, cheaper fares, caster journey times and are more likely to be treated as a customer (by EC) than a potential criminal (by EMT). The risk of using a rattling mid-range DMU is also averted, and a buffet car will be available. It's a no-brainer to anyone who has that choice.

I'm quite lucky really, some people have to endure awful customer service.

The whole approach seems ridiculously limiting. It means you can't use print at home to buy a ticket for another member of the family. When my son was a student I regularly bought a National Express coach ticket him to then print and use to get home from university 125 miles away. If it can be done for coaches why can't the rail industry just get on and be more flexible for customers?

TUC said:

The whole approach seems ridiculously limiting. It means you can't use print at home to buy a ticket for another member of the family. When my son was a student I regularly bought a National Express coach ticket him to then print and use to get home from university 125 miles away. If it can be done for coaches why can't the rail industry just get on and be more flexible for customers?

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You can with EC.

TUC said:

The whole approach seems ridiculously limiting. It means you can't use print at home to buy a ticket for another member of the family. When my son was a student I regularly bought a National Express coach ticket him to then print and use to get home from university 125 miles away. If it can be done for coaches why can't the rail industry just get on and be more flexible for customers?

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Virgin will be offering this facility in the very near future.

Sorry to reopen an old thread. But I thought some of you might be interested to know of the follow-up to the incident described in my post below.

I had lengthy correspondence with East Coast's customer relations team who were unable to issue a refund, but advised me to contact passenger focus. I did this, forwarding all the correspondence and adding a brief resume of the situation, and my friend recently received a full £150 refund. Hurray!

Barclay said:

I was caught out my this yesterday. A friend came down from Edinburgh to see me and I booked him a train ticket to get home. Noticed EC are now offering print at home so thought I would give that a try and save myself a trip to the station to pick up the tickets.

Unfortunately, when I selected print at home I did not notice that the selection of a debit card, its last four digits and name were for ID and not payment purposes. Result is that my friend boarded at KX yesterday with a ticket in my name not his and was stung for a full fare from London to Edinburgh when the gripper came round, at £150 ish.

I am cross about this. It is my fault for not paying enough attention when booking, but I think that it needs to be made more obvious on the EC website that the person named must be travelling or you will be liable for the full fare. Also, if they are introducing these new systems the revenue protection people should show some discretion in these early stages when people are not familiar with the product and can make a genuine mistake.

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Barclay said:

Sorry to reopen an old thread. But I thought some of you might be interested to know of the follow-up to the incident described in my post below.

I had lengthy correspondence with East Coast's customer relations team who were unable to issue a refund, but advised me to contact passenger focus. I did this, forwarding all the correspondence and adding a brief resume of the situation, and my friend recently received a full £150 refund. Hurray!

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Glad to hear it!!

I don't know why companies run under the premise that everyone uses their own cards to book tickets, etc. It's simply not the case in the real world.

I regularly use my East Coast account to send tickets to my dad so he doesnt need to go and buy them over the counter, and it saves him money too!

Why Print@home has to be so awkward who knows?!?

When it comes down to it, a train ticket is no different to anything else "purchased" - if its been purchased fraudulently its down to the card provider and the card holder to sort out, not to cause problems between train guards and passengers, especially when we're talking figures of £150... not everyone carries that sort of cash around with them.

Trouble with print at home is they are easy to forge.

BrianTheLion said:

I don't know why companies run under the premise that everyone uses their own cards to book tickets, etc. It's simply not the case in the real world.

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You can specify any card you want to be shown as ID on the train. It need not be the payment card.

Failed Unit said:

Trouble with print at home is they are easy to forge.

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Indeed. you dont even need to be that computer savvy just to change something on it. Though should they not at least give the guard on services a print out of each say P@H ticket number for such a journey and match these to the ones presented.


Every time they try and make something so simple as this so many other issues crop up that generally were not thought about in the process so were overlooked and thus cause problems.

The guard didn't even ask to see my ID. He just scanned my ticket with some gizmo. If they do that surely the system would know whether the ticket has been scanned already, so why the need to use ID?

Barclay said:

Sorry to reopen an old thread. But I thought some of you might be interested to know of the follow-up to the incident described in my post below.

I had lengthy correspondence with East Coast's customer relations team who were unable to issue a refund, but advised me to contact passenger focus. I did this, forwarding all the correspondence and adding a brief resume of the situation, and my friend recently received a full £150 refund. Hurray!

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TBH it's your own fault. It's perfectly clear that you are entering info for ID.

Some gaurds insist on it, and also insist that you don't move seats

Failed Unit said:

Trouble with print at home is they are easy to forge.

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Is the barcode easy to forge?

Bungle73 said:

TBH it's your own fault. It's perfectly clear that you are entering info for ID.

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Obviously the rail watchdog disagrees....lucky that I applied to Passenger focus for a refund rather than Bungle73 focus!

Barclay said:

Obviously the rail watchdog disagrees....lucky that I applied to Passenger focus for a refund rather than Bungle73 focus!

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Passenger Focus won't have an opinion on the matter. They are there simply as an intermediary and essentially play both customer and TOC off one another until one gives in.

It isn't Passenger Focus who have refunded you - it's East Coast, who are basically saying "go on then" with an eye roll thrown in for good measure.

Passenger Focus are extraordinarily ineffective at anything else other than bothering TOCs until they give in. Their remit needs to be expanded and they need to employ people with better knowledge of how the railway works in practice.

If you purchased an Anytime ticket online and made numerous forged/cloned copies of your credit card what would stop you printing off as many of the tickets as you had copies of the card ?

radamfi said:

Is the barcode easy to forge?

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Yes - and also copy. Then you get the, your equipment is £&(@ arguement. You get 2 people with the same barcode which one is real?