RailUK Forums
RailUK Forums > UK Railway Forums > Railtours & Preservation


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 16th May 2012, 08:25   #1
Schnellzug
le Petit Train Jaune
Established Member
 
Schnellzug's Avatar
 
Join Date: 22 Aug 2011
Location: Evercreech Junction
Posts: 2,926
Default 50007 Hercules?

I see that there's an Appeal that's been launched to have 50007 repainted Blue and renamed back to Hercules. ( link , also accessible from wnxx.com). I can't help thinking, there's about a dozen that are in Blue already, so why not keep one, that can legitimately carry something different, different? That's what i always say. If people wanted to campaign to have one repainted, I can't help looking in the direction of 50035 ....
Schnellzug is offline  
Sponsored links - Registered users do not see these banners - join today!
Old 16th May 2012, 09:03   #2
hairyhandedfool
TOC employee
Established Member
 
Join Date: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 6,902
Default

I still don't get the whole anti-Sir Edward Elgar thing, it is a lump of metal used to haul trains and the owner has the right to have it in whichever livery (s)he wants with whatever name (s)he wants on it.

I haven't seen any major hate for 50017 (50117 RfD or 50017 LMS), 50035 (50135 Loadhaul) or 50044 (Two tone green), so I can only assume that, as it is still going strong after nearly 30 years, it is a name thing. The 50s only had names applied to appease the Warship followers who had a hissy fit over their withdrawl from service.

I really think people need to get over it now, rather than waste 3,000.

Is it possible the loco is in need of a repaint and the owner can't (or won't) afford it?
__________________
These views are my own and not, in any way, those of my employer, though they may choose to agree with them if they wish.
hairyhandedfool is offline  
Old 16th May 2012, 09:17   #3
4SRKT
Established Member
 
Join Date: 9 Jan 2009
Posts: 4,373
Default

I can't believe someone is trying to revive this nearly 30 year old controversy! Forget arguments about pacers or whether Pendos are better than mk IIIs or vice versa, the 50007 thing was by far the most acrimonious event I can ever recall in all my years as an enthusiast.
4SRKT is offline  
Old 16th May 2012, 10:33   #4
yummy125
Member
 
Join Date: 2 Oct 2010
Posts: 236
Default

I would love to see 50 007 back to "Hercules", but why not have both nameplates on it, (Hercules 1 side & "Sir" the other). As for 50 035 in Loadhall colours why was it repainted as it never carried these colours in service, looks better on a Class 56, 60..? Was 50's ever in two-tone green back in the 60's / 70's aka 50 044..?
yummy125 is offline  
Old 16th May 2012, 11:13   #5
StripeyNick
Member
 
Join Date: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Cowbridge, S.Wales
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yummy125 View Post
I would love to see 50 007 back to "Hercules", but why not have both nameplates on it, (Hercules 1 side & "Sir" the other). As for 50 035 in Loadhall colours why was it repainted as it never carried these colours in service, looks better on a Class 56, 60..? Was 50's ever in two-tone green back in the 60's / 70's aka 50 044..?
I personally think 35 looks great in Loadhaul. It provides a bit of variety to the railways. As for 44, 50s never carried green (apart from 7.......but that's different).

I think it's nice to have a change around with liveries.
__________________
Please feel free to look at my photos and videos
StripeyNick is offline  
Old 16th May 2012, 11:22   #6
hairyhandedfool
TOC employee
Established Member
 
Join Date: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yummy125 View Post
....As for 50 035 in Loadhall colours why was it repainted as it never carried these colours in service, looks better on a Class 56, 60..?....
No idea, but they didn't even get it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yummy125 View Post
....Was 50's ever in two-tone green back in the 60's / 70's aka 50 044..?
All fifty were introduced in BR blue, the first green 50 was 50007 in 1984.
__________________
These views are my own and not, in any way, those of my employer, though they may choose to agree with them if they wish.
hairyhandedfool is offline  
Old 16th May 2012, 12:14   #7
ACE1888
Western Region Rocker
Member
 
ACE1888's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2 Apr 2011
Location: Penzance, Cornwall
Posts: 822
Default

Personal view? Leave it in GWR Green, as there are several '50's in BR Blue/Large Logo liveries, but it's the owners choice, simple as...
As a footnote, when 50007 was painted in Green, there was a rumour around (it was in 'Rail Enthusiast' Magazine) of 50016 'Barham' being painted in Maroon...now that would have been interesting
__________________
'I guess it doesn't matter, as long as I can get my head down in the sun' Photosite Railwayforum.net
ACE1888 is offline  
Old 20th May 2012, 23:36   #8
Tiny Tim
Railway enthusiast
Member
 
Tiny Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 6 Jan 2012
Location: Devizes, Wiltshire.
Posts: 457
Default

It's amazing how people get wound up about a coat of paint and a name/number. We should count ourselves lucky that locos survive, not nit-pick about the colour scheme. I've seen letters in railway magazines from readers vowing not to travel behind a loco simply because the livery is (in their opinion) wrong. How childish is that?
Tiny Tim is offline  
Old 21st May 2012, 00:54   #9
YorkshireBear
Established Member
 
Join Date: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 6,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny Tim View Post
It's amazing how people get wound up about a coat of paint and a name/number. We should count ourselves lucky that locos survive, not nit-pick about the colour scheme. I've seen letters in railway magazines from readers vowing not to travel behind a loco simply because the livery is (in their opinion) wrong. How childish is that?
Couldn't agree more.
especially in the case of the 50s, must have one of the highest survival rates of any class.
__________________
It's Always Darkest Before the Dawn
YorkshireBear is offline  
Old 21st May 2012, 15:35   #10
deltic1989
Napier Power!!!
Established Member
 
deltic1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Sep 2010
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny Tim View Post
It's amazing how people get wound up about a coat of paint and a name/number. We should count ourselves lucky that locos survive, not nit-pick about the colour scheme. I've seen letters in railway magazines from readers vowing not to travel behind a loco simply because the livery is (in their opinion) wrong. How childish is that?
I agree with that whole statement. Personally I dont really give 2 hoots what the livery is on a loco as long as it looks right and 50007 looks right in the GWR green, so its not an original livery big deal if all the surviving 50's were in BR Blue then in my opinion it would be a little boring.
Its the owners choice really, if the owner wants thier loco in that livery then so be it they are the one that has spent hundreds of thousnds (maybe millions) buying/restoring/running the loco, leave them to it.

The exeption to my "don't give 2 hoots about the livery" philosophy is, D9016 in Porterbrook "Purple Ronnie" livery, but that did look awful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkshireBear View Post
especially in the case of the 50s, must have one of the highest survival rates of any class.
Class 37??
__________________
Don't wait for your ship to come in. Swim out and meet the bloody thing. - Barry Sheene
deltic1989 is offline  
Old 21st May 2012, 16:28   #11
4SRKT
Established Member
 
Join Date: 9 Jan 2009
Posts: 4,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltic1989 View Post
I agree with that whole statement. Personally I dont really give 2 hoots what the livery is on a loco as long as it looks right and 50007 looks right in the GWR green, so its not an original livery big deal if all the surviving 50's were in BR Blue then in my opinion it would be a little boring.
Its the owners choice really, if the owner wants thier loco in that livery then so be it they are the one that has spent hundreds of thousnds (maybe millions) buying/restoring/running the loco, leave them to it.

The exeption to my "don't give 2 hoots about the livery" philosophy is, D9016 in Porterbrook "Purple Ronnie" livery, but that did look awful.




Class 37??
I think what a lot of younger posters having grown up in a kaleidoscopic world drenched in colour will not realise the significance of is that not so very long ago ALL locos were blue (except 40106), ALL coaching stock was blue and grey, and ALL units were either blue or blue and grey. Unusual liveries were therefore much more to be remarked on then than now (even large logo seemed revolutionary, and as for ScotRail......). The whole notion of 'authenticity' is redundant in a world where franchises constantly change hands and the only growth industry is making vinyls and decals. It's no use judging and pronouncing on the past using the standards and attitudes of the present (in any field). Those of us who were there at the time will remember the hoo-hah over 50007 and it seems it still hasn't died.

As a proportion of the total there are more class 50 survivors than 37s.

Last edited by 4SRKT; 21st May 2012 at 16:52.
4SRKT is offline  
Old 21st May 2012, 18:44   #12
deltic1989
Napier Power!!!
Established Member
 
deltic1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Sep 2010
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4SRKT View Post
I think what a lot of younger posters having grown up in a kaleidoscopic world drenched in colour will not realise the significance of is that not so very long ago ALL locos were blue (except 40106), ALL coaching stock was blue and grey, and ALL units were either blue or blue and grey. Unusual liveries were therefore much more to be remarked on then than now (even large logo seemed revolutionary, and as for ScotRail......). The whole notion of 'authenticity' is redundant in a world where franchises constantly change hands and the only growth industry is making vinyls and decals. It's no use judging and pronouncing on the past using the standards and attitudes of the present (in any field). Those of us who were there at the time will remember the hoo-hah over 50007 and it seems it still hasn't died.

As a proportion of the total there are more class 50 survivors than 37s.
I see what you mean. I am just old enough to remember the end of BR (only just) but even then trains were liveried differently depending on the sector they were assigned to. No doubt I would hold an entirely different opinion if I was old enough to remember BR Blue on locos in service.

on the second bit, I misunderstood the initial comment and thught that it was numbers being referred to rather than the proportion of the fleet. my apologies on that.
__________________
Don't wait for your ship to come in. Swim out and meet the bloody thing. - Barry Sheene
deltic1989 is offline  
Old 21st May 2012, 20:09   #13
4SRKT
Established Member
 
Join Date: 9 Jan 2009
Posts: 4,373
Default

No criticism was intended! My own opinion on 50007 is that it's up to the owner and that in fact keeping it green as a curiosity is probably the best thing. Its repainting was one of the big talking points of the Golden Age of diesel cranking (I have a copy of Rail Enthusiast from the time somewhere that has several pages of correspondence on what now seems a totally unremarkable subject), and the green livery is by this time an authentic commemoration of that time. I was firmly in the 'keep it large logo and called Hercules' camp back in '84 though!

It was indeed a bit of a change when things like InterCity, ScotRail and Railfreight grey came along after so many years of blue and grey. I personally loved the large logo livery, especially on locos like 50s and 56s. It didn't seem to work so well on shorter locos like 37s IMHO: too much yellow.

Last edited by 4SRKT; 21st May 2012 at 20:22.
4SRKT is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 07:56   #14
hairyhandedfool
TOC employee
Established Member
 
Join Date: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 6,902
Default

So at the end of '84 there were two green locos? and by the end of '85 there were six? yet nearly thirty years on people still only have hate for just one of them? It just doesn't make sense to me.
__________________
These views are my own and not, in any way, those of my employer, though they may choose to agree with them if they wish.
hairyhandedfool is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 10:42   #15
4SRKT
Established Member
 
Join Date: 9 Jan 2009
Posts: 4,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyhandedfool View Post
So at the end of '84 there were two green locos? and by the end of '85 there were six? yet nearly thirty years on people still only have hate for just one of them? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Why does it have to be about sense? 40122 was different as it was reinstated from the scrapline in green livery and was thus a celebrity. The 50007 thing was because of the destruction of both the coherence of all being named after warships and all being large logo (50013 had been repainted thus only shortly before). Nobody would have minded if an anonymous newly converted 47/4 had been painted GWR green and named Sir Edward Elgar. In fact I'm sure it would have been welcomed.
4SRKT is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:24.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright © 2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© RailUK Forums 2005 - 2014