[jimmy030470]

On my season ticket goring by sea to horsham it says any permitted route. I have been told this means I can go via barnham or go via brighton and three bridges. It was a train conductor that told me this but I am not sure what would happen if I tried to put my ticket in the barrier at brighton ,would it let me through.

[SickyNicky]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

Calculating permitted routes is pretty complex. The official guide to this is found at http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-...routeing-guide

The shortest route is via Ford, so this route is always allowed. The Brighton route is over 13 miles longer than the Ford route, so we need to check if Brighton is an appropriate routeing point for Goring by Sea.

To check this we have to look at the single fare from Goring to Horsham and compare it to the single fare from Brighton to Horsham. Since the fare from Brighton is higher, we're not allowed to use Brighton as a routeing point.

So, you are not actually permitted to travel via Brighton.

Sometimes guards and gateline staff are not properly trained on the routeing guide and may think that routes are allowed when they shouldn't be, and vice versa. Often a route that is not permitted will be accepted if it's "reasonable". The gates at Brighton may or may not let you out.

If I were in your situation, I would first get confirmation in writing from the train operating company that they will accept your ticket via Brighton.

[jimmy030470]

What about if i got the ticket to run from goring by sea to crawley, its only £2.40 more but on the planner it seems to alow travel both via barnham or brighton and three birdges.

[SickyNicky]

Yes - that would be fine. Your ticket would be valid via Ford or Brighton to Crawley.

Since Horsham is on the route via Ford, it would be fine to use the ticket to Crawley via Brighton and Three Bridges and then continue to use it from Crawley to Horsham.

If your intention is to normally commute via Ford to Horsham, but occasionally go to Brighton (and not actually go to Horsham via Brighton) then the Crawley ticket is the one to get. If the barriers at Brighton don't open, just show the ticket to the staff to be let through. Ticket barriers frequently don't understand ticket validity.

[jimmy030470]

thank you very much for your help, you help will save me a lot of money just a shame i didnt know before as i often go to shoreham and brighton and buy i ticket when as it turns out i didnt need to if i knew about how routing works.

[SickyNicky]

You're very welcome. If you or your friends ever want to make a rail journey, feel free to ask here and the experts will help you with fares and routes.

[johnnycache]

Southern are simplifying their fares
Outside zones 1-6 the maximum weekly season ticket fare is £60 for journeys wholly within the Southern network (Example Barnham Three Bridges)
There are still a few exceptions as this is work in progress but thats the plan

For the journey Goring Horsham the fare is £52 per week and that's valid either way as long as none of the other intermediate fares are higher

Its also valid via Gatwick Airport and Barnham

If you do run into any trouble please contact customer services mentionning this post and we'll sort it out for you

If anyone finds any anomalies or problems please let me know

[John @ home]

Originally Posted by johnnycache

For the journey Goring Horsham the fare is £52 per week

Are you sure? National Fares Manual NFM 11 CD and NFM 12 CD, The Manual and Southern's season ticket mixing deck all show

GORING BY SEA 5272 - HORSHAM 5309
(Derived from LITTLEHAMPTON 5260 - HORSHAM. 5309)
7DS - SEVEN DAY STD SN
Route 00000 - ANY PERMITTED £49.60

What is your source for the £52.00 figure?

Originally Posted by johnnycache

that's valid either way as long as none of the other intermediate fares are higher

But it has already been pointed out by SickyNicky in this post that, comparing single fares as instructed by the National Routeing Guide, "Since the fare from Brighton is higher, we're not allowed to use Brighton as a routeing point. So, you are not actually permitted to travel via Brighton."

SickyNicky's advice is based on the National Routeing Guide. What is yours based on?

[apx068]

Hmmm, so most of Southern's weekly season tickets are capped at £60 per week. Surely this means that it's worth considering maximising the route if you're already close to the £60 mark?

For example, live anywhere along the Coastaway West routes and need to travel in an area bounded by Southampton/Brighton/Lewes/South London/Horsham then a Southampton - Mersterham ticket at £60 per week will do.
(Would this be valid for Portsmouth/Bognor or Littlehampton trips?)

Similarly, anywhere along the coast seems accessible on a Southampton - Ashford International weekly at £60.

This all appears quite remarkable as a Brighton - Eastbourne weekly ticket is £53!

This seems like an impressive reduction / simplification or has it always been this way and I've just not known?
Cheers,
Jason

[SickyNicky]

Originally Posted by johnnycache

Southern are simplifying their fares
Outside zones 1-6 the maximum weekly season ticket fare is £60 for journeys wholly within the Southern network

However, the OPs journey is not (or may not be) wholly within the Southern network. For example, a Goring by Sea to Littlehaven season ticket routed "Any Permitted" would also be valid on First Great Western services between Ford and Brighton and on First Capital Connect services between Brighton and Three Bridges.

In any case, at £49.60 it is well below the notional £60 Southern cap you suggest.

[johnnycache]

the process is not quite as far advanced as i had thought here are some examples:

Hastings Horsham 7DS £60.00
Eastbourne Horsham 7DS £60.00
Lewes Horsham 7DS £52.60*
Brighton Horsham 7DS £52.00
Hove Horsham 7DS £52.00
Portslade Horsham 7DS £60.00*
Shoreham Horsham 7DS £60.00*
Worthing Horsham 7DS £60.00*
Goring Horsham 7DS £49.60*
Littlehampton Horsham 7DS £49.60*
Ford Horsham 7DS £49.60*
Barnham Horsham £54.10*
Chichester Horsham 7DS £52.00
Bognor Regis Horsham 7DS £54.10*
Havant Horsham £60.00
Portsmouth Horsham £60.00
Southampton Horsham £60.00

Probably the best way of tidying this up would be to charge £52 from all the places with an asterisk with tickets valid (where relevant) via either Ford/Barnham or Hove/Brighton
We will be attempting further simplications in September
Comments welcome

[jimmy030470]

Now you have all confused me, basically all I want to know is if I tried to use my season ticket from goring by sea to horsham to travel to bright on would I end up getting fined for not having a ticket. So I understand it would be better to get a ticket to littlehaven as this is more likely to cover that route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have also noticed that useing the southern website for a ticket form goring by sea to crawley it wont allow travel via barnham, only ford. But not many trains stop at ford and i know you can use the ticket to change at banham. Because of this the website wont ahow journeys that invole changing at barnham. also it wont allow changing at gatwick. The national rail enquires site seems to allow these journeys no problem so what am i to belive.

[SickyNicky]

Sorry about that. The thread went off away from the original question.

Go with your original suggestion and use the Goring by Sea to Crawley ticket and you will not have any trouble going either way.

Goring by Sea to Crawley is valid and completely reasonable via Brighton or Ford. Forget the Littlehaven ticket.

As for travelling via Barnham, that would not normally be allowed (because you double back through Ford), but there is a specific easement (30141) that allows you to do this, so it IS valid.

You cannot travel via Gatwick Airport. You must change at Three Bridges if you choose to go that way.

[John @ home]

Originally Posted by SickyNicky

Go with your original suggestion and use the Goring by Sea to Crawley ticket and you will not have any trouble going either way.

Goring by Sea to Crawley is valid and completely reasonable via Brighton or Ford.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by SickyNicky

As for travelling via Barnham, that would not normally be allowed (because you double back through Ford), but there is a specific easement (30141) that allows you to do this, so it IS valid.

Agreed. See Easements. I'm surprised that the Southern site doesn't implement this Easement. No doubt johnnycache is in a position to investigate the reason for this error. South West Trains correctly allows it.

Originally Posted by SickyNicky

You cannot travel via Gatwick Airport. You must change at Three Bridges if you choose to go that way.

Easement 70 is intended to allow travel via Gatwick Airport in these circumstances.

Easement 70

The following journeys may double back between Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges:
(1) from Faygate to Haywards Heath,
(2) from Faygate and via Haywards Heath,
(3) via Faygate and to Haywards Heath,
(4) via Faygate and via Haywards Heath.
This easement applies in both directions.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf

On this occasion, neither Southern nor South West Trains allow the Easement. I wonder if the electronic version of Easement 70 implements it incorrectly?

[SickyNicky]

Originally Posted by John @ home

Easement 70 is intended to allow travel via Gatwick Airport in these circumstances. On this occasion, neither Southern nor South West Trains allow the Easement. I wonder if the electronic version of Easement 70 implements it incorrectly?

Easement 70 only becomes relevant where your journey ends at or goes via Faygate. Crawley is before Faygate so I don't think the easement can be used in this case.