[SS4]

@OP: Do you have union representation in your job? If so is it a strong union like RMT or PCS?

I ask because in many cases it seems to be jealousy that other workers can negotiate with their employers whilst you can't. A Union's raison d'etre is to protect pay and conditions and to negotiate a good deal for its members from unscrupulous management. A similar, yet opposite, mechanism is that how do you feel that all your unpaid overtime means the boss can get another zero on the end of his bonus?

[embers25]

Originally Posted by Tomnick

From your original post. It's one thing doing your normal job, between the times stated on your roster and known to you for weeks or months in advance; it's quite another to be forced to work overtime or have your roster changed at relatively short notice. Isn't it fair that they should get some sort of additional payment if they're being asked (or told) to be more flexible?

There are numerous jobs where you work overtime to meet demands of a peak period at short notice...often unpaid and it is known as "business need". Its also hardly short notice as they've known it would be expected since at the latest when the extra late night services were announced months ago. Even the RMT haven't said people will be forced to work, they just said they haven't been given guarentees they won't which is not the same thing.

[SS4]

Originally Posted by embers25

There are numerous jobs where you work overtime to meet demands of a peak period at short notice...often unpaid and it is known as "business need". Its also hardly short notice as they've known it would be expected since at the latest when the extra late night services were announced months ago. Even the RMT haven't said people will be forced to work, they just said they haven't been given guarentees they won't which is not the same thing.

There are also contracts of employment and working time directives

[ushawk]

Never knew SWT were HIRING extra rolling stock for services. Most TOCs are hiring extra staff for the Olympics and are running extra services.

Of course if current staff havent been told about the plans, are being told they have to work extra hours without any notice - then that isnt really acceptable in which case i support staff members striking - but doing it during the Olympics isnt acceptable.

[embers25]

Originally Posted by SS4

@OP: Do you have union representation in your job? If so is it a strong union like RMT or PCS?

I ask because in many cases it seems to be jealousy that other workers can negotiate with their employers whilst you can't. A Union's raison d'etre is to protect pay and conditions and to negotiate a good deal for its members from unscrupulous management. A similar, yet opposite, mechanism is that how do you feel that all your unpaid overtime means the boss can get another zero on the end of his bonus?

No I don't currently have union representation but have worked in jobs that did and am grateful to be free from them. Also not all management is unscrupulous and also often management can be more flexible with buy in from employees which the RMT don't exactly support. The RMT has an expressed interest in causing trouble as if there are no issues then no one would join or pay dues and they would cease to exist and Bob Crow would join the unemployment line. Bottom line is its all politics not employee rights at all.

[Tomnick]

Originally Posted by embers25

There are numerous jobs where you work overtime to meet demands of a peak period at short notice...often unpaid and it is known as "business need".

Yes, as I do in my current job. It's part of the contract, so I can't really complain, and our management is flexible - happy for us to take the time back if/when workload allows, or claim pay for the overtime if it's more than a few hours over the week. Rather different here though.

Its also hardly short notice as they've known it would be expected since at the latest when the extra late night services were announced months ago.

Extra services don't necessarily mean forced overtime. Not sure if there's an agreement for them to work their rest days, but covering the extra work that way, wit volunteers, would be one possibility.

Even the RMT haven't said people will be forced to work, they just said they haven't been given guarentees they won't which is not the same thing.

Wouldn't you rather know that you won't be forced to work overtime so that you can plan things for your rest days?

[radamfi]

Given that the RMT doesn't believe they get a good deal at the moment, what will they be satisfied with? It seems that no matter how good things get, there will always be something to complain about. And there is nothing that anyone can do about it. I don't see why the RMT don't go for a £100,000 basic salary for a 30 hour week. There is nothing to stop them.

[Matt Taylor]

Originally Posted by Monty

Infact the only thing left unresolved was the request by RMT that further pay review disscussions for guards would be held seprately from other grades like the drivers are currently done now. So a bit perplexed about this one!

We've been asking for that for a long time but nothing ever happens, so much for the union working for us!

[SussexMan]

Originally Posted by HexDriver

... and drivers are not hourly paid...

I realise that a driver's contract wouldn't state "£x per hour" but is there no working week length in the contract, i.e. "£x000 for y hours per week" type arrangement. If not, there must be some measure in the contract. If drivers aren't hourly paid then I assume overtime can never be paid - what happens with long delays and ending work late? Are all contracts the same across TOCs? What about other train staff or are drivers on very different contracts?

[A-driver]

Why are drivers being brought into this thread? This is the RMT-I would be surprised if many SWT drivers were involved in this-they would be represented by aslef-nothing to do with the RMT or bob crow.

As for contracts drivers get paid for a weekly set of hours which is pro rata so some weeks will be more, some less. For overtime it varies company to company but often the first 15or 30 mins are for free for delays/submitting reports etc. After that you are paid overtime.

[dk1]

As a driver we work to aggreements that have been set up over many many years & both staff & management have to keep to their sides of the bargain. The Olympic bonuses are a bit of a carrot to allow this to be temporarily suspended & thus allow changes to rosters etc to come into force to allow additional services &/or changes to usual practice to come into effect. Staff could otherwise refuse to agree & put the enhanced level into jeopardy. I am not saying everyone would but without this suspension a reliable Olympic timetable would be very difficult to achieve. Rather than risk this the TOCs have approached the staff side & worked out a deal that most are now very quite satisfied with from what i see & hear. Even those who rarely work overtime are offering to work for the enhanced pay rates & i predict that staffing throughout will be of no problem on the GEML.

[Goldfish62]

I don't wish to get involved in taking sides in this debate (apart from saying I'm proud to be an active trade unionist as well as a manager), but on a point of fact where are all these alleged extra services that SWT is running during the Olympics?

As far as I can see their service provision is pretty pathetic - one extra late night train to Staines and a handful of last trains retimed by a few minutes.

[swj99]

Originally Posted by embers25

Their latest news page is full of strikes (oh the surprise)...it really is about time the unions were brought back under control or better still crushed once and for all as they are killing the UK.

It could just as easily be suggested that the government is killing the UK and needs to be brought back under control. It just depends on your perspective and point of view.

To stereotype and discount any union leader, whether it be Bob Crowe or anyone else, is as bad as singling out someone because of their racial origin.

My observation of industrial disputes over the years is that in order to win an argument, one side will attempt to damage the credibility of the other side, with petty personal arguments which tend to derail the matter at hand. Somewhat similar to the terrible example which is set by some MPs in parliament.

[WelshBluebird]

Maybe I am being a bit dim, but if they are being asked to work more hours during the games, then why shouldn't they be paid extra?
I do agree that the olympic bonuses that have been talked about are a bit of a joke in some of the cases (where the staff will just be doing their normal job anyway), but in cases where staff will have to work longer hours, then it is only fair that they get paid for that extra time.

[Robbies]

Originally Posted by WelshBluebird

Maybe I am being a bit dim, but if they are being asked to work more hours during the games, then why shouldn't they be paid extra?
I do agree that the olympic bonuses that have been talked about are a bit of a joke in some of the cases (where the staff will just be doing their normal job anyway), but in cases where staff will have to work longer hours, then it is only fair that they get paid for that extra time.

They should be paid extra and in details that I read from the negotiations fours months ago I believe correct me if I am wrong that South West Trains did agree to pay both drivers and guards that work through the Olympic period extra which is also the same with the HEx staff as well?

On the point about stereotyping Bob Crowe, to me as someone who is does not work in the railways, Mr Crowe always seems to be more of a nuisance when there is not a Labour goverment in power. I think he needs to realise that when the power of Government changes to a different party or as in the case of the present Government it is parties, then the thinking needs to be changed as to how to work with the new Government rather than being a nuisance. It is better for him to work with the Government so that peolle keep travelling otherwise the media just show it as being his fault as he is the one that calls the strikes that happen, rather than the Government or the train companies more so for any hours being worked to keep everyone happy.