[ml]

According to wiki a lack of train crew and serviceable trains were responsible for FGW shortening trains to overcome this. I thought the DFT ordered FGW to relinquish units to Eastleigh in a cost cutting exercise..

So were National Express to blame? FGW took over in 2006 so Wessex Trains might have been held responsible for not looking after the trains

The class 153s were in an appalling internal state under Wessex Trains

[David10]

Combination of the 2 from all accounts.

[YorkshireRider]

Off topic but slightly related, there were rumours at work that DOR was allowed to bill NX for nearly £2m for the disgraceful state the rolling stock was left in on the East Coast.

[ml]

wow that is interesting. Pity GA haven't done the same

Where did the lack of train crew come from?

[fgwrich]

Originally Posted by ml

According to wiki a lack of train crew and serviceable trains were responsible for FGW shortening trains to overcome this. I thought the DFT ordered FGW to relinquish units to Eastleigh in a cost cutting exercise..

So were National Express to blame? FGW took over in 2006 so Wessex Trains might have been held responsible for not looking after the trains

The class 153s were in an appalling internal state under Wessex Trains

Right, this is where i come in with what i know.

One of the problems First Group faced when taking over the franchise was the state of the fleet and its associated maintenance. One of the first things FGW did was to remove West of England fleet maintenance out of Cardiff's Canton depot and bring it in house. Even that was done with quite an uphill struggle and as GW management have admitted in the past, wasn't handled in the best light, but since then has brought a new DMU Depot at St Phillips Marsh, and DMU Depot upgrades to Exeter and Plymouths Laira?. It has also taken a much more proactive stance on maintenance compared to Wessex Trains - most of those lovely picture 150s were rather more held together by the Vinyl and filler underneath that - Not the best way to do things, and is one of the reasons as to why FGW has switched to a plain blue livery for their 'West Fleet' now.

Certainly back in Wessex days, shortformed 158s on the Cardiff - Portsmouth services were fairly common and usually seemed to be of whatever unit Canton could 'chuck' out into service - Canton's infamous maintenance was also one of the reasons as to why Wessex management brought in several hired in Central Trains class 158s towards the end of the franchise, pretty much just to keep a service running!

The train crew issue was another problem, with various members of staff covering certain routes – Such as the old case of Bristol unit men signing the route as far as Plymouth in Wales & West days, and i gather covering some of the Exeter jobs too. However, this have now changed with apparently more guards at Exeter than Bristol.

As for the units heading into Eastleigh – The Daft’s attack on the GW Franchise was a pretty difficult one. Of the units removed from the start of the franchise in 2006, were:
2? Class 143s to Arriva Trains Wales

8 Class 150/2s units were passed to Arriva Trains Wales – who occasionaly used 5 of them, before re-hiring / subleasing 5 units back to FGW. * In 2007, FGW did manage to lease 150121 & 127 from Angel trains, after London Overground reduced its fleet by 2 units.

4 Class 153s – 153302”, 308”, 355* and 374* -” Devon & Cornwall livery. * Heart of Wessex. ** However, First great western did receive in 2007 ex First North Western / Ex Northern Rail / Ex Arriva Trains Wales class 153361 from ATW – as a token unit.

12 Class 158s – Now, this was in part a clever rue from FGW. Apart from the inconvenience of losing 12 units, whilst trying to send your units for refurbishment, What FGW actually managed to do was bring in 12? Replacement Class 158 units from Transpennine express – Leased by Porterbrook, to replace 12 mixed bag Class 158s hired from Angel Trains. These mixed bag units ranged amongst other things, mostly from having Perkins engines to Cummins 400 HP engines. As well as also having various Wessex Porterbrook leased 158s still in the fleet. So all in all, it was more of a way of standardising the 158 fleet.

So, in essence, Eastleigh was a DfT cost cutting exercise which backfired severely on the DfT – in having to bring in Loco Hauled sets, 8 Class 150/1s from London Overground, and by funding FGWs ‘The Bristol 6’ plan which involved taking on 153325/333 from LM.

Anyway, i could probably write more on the subject but i need sleep – But that’s about as much of an insight i can give to you tonight, without falling asleep on the keyboard. But in short – The start of the FGW franchise was a mess, this can be pinpointed to 4 areas. The shambles of a mess left behind by Nat Ex’s Wessex Trains, The merger of this and First Great Western Link into one solid franchise without the correct leadership – Ms Alison Forster will probably go down as one of the worst managers the Great Western has ever had, The infringement and tinkering by the DfT, and the lack of communication between First Great Western and Network Rail – For it’s then poor performances on the Thames Valley infrastructure.... Night!

Oh and i too would also hope that NX were fined for leaving the EC Stock in such a dire state - How they been fined for the GW franchise... As for the 153s and 158s - Sorry East Midlands Trains Staff! Those 4 153s were always the worst of the fleet and fortunate that FGW couldn't get shot of them quick enough! They caused problems in store in Eastleigh and by the sounds of it, are still 'whistling' their way in the EMT fleet.

[Bakers1970]

deleted

[Flamingo]

Just to add into FGWrich's post, two other points that didn't help the beginning of the franchise, which were a lack of traincrew caused by a recruitment freeze in the year coming up to the franchise and the first year of it, and the (insane) decision to make pretty much every member of staff in a role which did not wear a uniform reapply for their (or any other) role. It made for chaos, with every manager taking their eye off the ball, and it took about 18 months for the bods on the ground to feel that anybody was running the day-to-day business. The rostering / resourcing side was a particular mess, with agency staff manning the desk, and nobody knowing what was going on.

Expanding on NR failures in that period, I remember many more delays caused by NR problems than FGW problems, but we were specifically told to NEVER blame NR for the delay when making announcements or giving information.

Mind you, Alison Foster was not as bad as you make out, she did a very good job of holding it all together after Ufton Nervit, and must be given credit for that. Quite how much her hands were tied. By First Group management we don't know. Her successor had a freer hand (initially), that much is known.

[PHILIPE]

Re earlier point ATW did not place 5 x 150s in Store but they went straight into traffic. FGW transferred Maintenance of DMUs from Canton to PM without the accomodation available, without additional staff and staff only trained on HSTs. This resulted a problem providing serviceable units in the early days.

[Flamingo]

Originally Posted by PHILIPE

Re earlier point ATW did not place 5 x 150s in Store but they went straight into traffic. FGW transferred Maintenance of DMUs from Canton to PM without the accomodation available, without additional staff and staff only trained on HSTs. This resulted a problem providing serviceable units in the early days.

Believe me, they had no choice but take them out of Canton, not only was the work simply not being done, but I have heard from some reliable sources that ATW were cannibalizing the FGW units for parts to fit to their own sets.

[PHILIPE]

Unfortunately they took them out of Canton before capacity was in place at PM. That's water under the bridge now

[RPI]

Originally Posted by PHILIPE

Re earlier point ATW did not place 5 x 150s in Store but they went straight into traffic. FGW transferred Maintenance of DMUs from Canton to PM without the accomodation available, without additional staff and staff only trained on HSTs. This resulted a problem providing serviceable units in the early days.

Yes and even with HST fitters at PM working on the units outside in the rain wind and thunder they managed better than Canton! It was not unusual in Wessex days for a unit to go into Canton with 3 faults and come back out with 3 different faults due to bits being nicked for the WB/ATW fleet. The first 18 months of this franchise were flippin awful and it was embarrasing turning up to work but thankfully they seemed to have learnt from their cock up's, the main thing being that they (FGW) admitted f*****g up and seemed to have learned by the mistakes, having said that, this week hasn't been good so far in terms of performance!

[Bakers1970]

Originally Posted by Flamingo

Believe me, they had no choice but take them out of Canton, not only was the work simply not being done, but I have heard from some reliable sources that ATW were cannibalizing the FGW units for parts to fit to their own sets.

As I was at Canton during this time.. I feel I can put reality towards some very 'off the mark' comments and smears towards a very dedicated workforce at Canton.
Your remark "not only was the work simply not being done" is bang out of order. As others have commented the new regimes in place were in somewhat dissarray.. I would hope that before posting, what can be preceived to be a smear on the fine efforts made by All at Canton you would take all facts into consideration!! Thankyou..a very disgruntled railway employee!!

[Flamingo]

Well, as I said in my original post, I heard from some very reliable sources FGW felt they were faced with no option than take the servicing out of Canton. I'd rather not post them on an open forum, so lets just leave it as for whatever reason, FGW decided to take
the servicing inhouse.

[Bakers1970]

Originally Posted by Flamingo

Well, as I said in my original post, I heard from some very reliable sources FGW felt they were faced with no option than take the servicing out of Canton. I'd rather not post them on an open forum, so lets just leave it as for whatever reason, FGW decided to take
the servicing inhouse.

Agreed, this is not the place to open some very contentious past decisions..

[AdamW]

Originally Posted by fgwrich

Right, this is where i come in with what i know....

Cheers for that post, made very interesting reading.

That sort of history is entirely the reason why I'd like to see First retain the GW franchise, as opposed to it being won by Arriva or NX for example. But that's a different debate...