[gage75]

am in the middle of an arguement with my s/dad as to who owns the 390's and voyagers, he's says it's Branson, altho I believe that it is a ROSCO, like Angel or Porterbrook

any help is welcome

[David10]

Originally Posted by gage75

am in the middle of an arguement with my s/dad as to who owns the 390's and voyagers, he's says it's Branson, altho I believe that it is a ROSCO, like Angel or Porterbrook

Owned by ROSCOs and leased to Virgin. Virgin spin would make you think differently though.

[route:oxford]

Originally Posted by gage75

am in the middle of an arguement with my s/dad as to who owns the 390's and voyagers, he's says it's Branson, altho I believe that it is a ROSCO, like Angel or Porterbrook

any help is welcome

ROSCO, ultimately owned by Willow Topco Limited of St Helier, Jersey.

[SalopSparky]

Originally Posted by gage75

am in the middle of an arguement with my s/dad as to who owns the 390's and voyagers, he's says it's Branson, altho I believe that it is a ROSCO, like Angel or Porterbrook

any help is welcome

390s are leased to VT by Angel Trains. Source

Angel Trains is a subsiduary of Willow Topco for accounting/tax purposes it would seem. See page 42 of this PDF file

[LNW-GW Joint]

Originally Posted by gage75

am in the middle of an arguement with my s/dad as to who owns the 390's and voyagers, he's says it's Branson, altho I believe that it is a ROSCO, like Angel or Porterbrook

any help is welcome

Voyagers are owned by a special financial group ("Voyager Leasing") set up for the purpose, but still a ROSCO.
I don't know if the same group owns the class 222 variants.
Branson owns nothing except the Virgin brand and the management team (and even they are 49% owned by Stagecoach).
All the other assets transfer automatically to the new franchisee.

Virgin did specify the 390/220/221 fleets and signed 15-year leases to get them built.
The 390s are maintained under contract from ICWC by the builder, Alstom, until 2022, the Voyagers by Bombardier until 2016.

[elarchibaldo]

Pendolinos are Angel
Voyagers are Halifax-bank-of-Scotland

[Phil6219]

Hmm, if they were on a 15 year lease then that would still put them with Virgin after the franchise has changed hands, it would be interesting if they held on to them as that would make a very good "up yours" to first...

Phil

[Clip]

Originally Posted by Phil6219

Hmm, if they were on a 15 year lease then that would still put them with Virgin after the franchise has changed hands, it would be interesting if they held on to them as that would make a very good "up yours" to first...

Phil

Why on earth would they do that and keep paying for vehicles they didnt have any track to run on?? Not to mention the lease probably had a clause in it to say if the franchise came to an end before the lease did then it would be terminated and then leased to the new franchisee

[route:oxford]

Originally Posted by elarchibaldo

Pendolinos are Angel
Voyagers are Halifax-bank-of-Scotland

There has never been a legal entity by the name of "Halifax Bank Of Scotland".

A lot of people, in particular journalists, use it to refer to HBOS PLC (probably because it fills copy), but HBOS isn't and has never been an abbreviation.

(It's all owned by Lloyds now anyway).

[rail-britain]

Originally Posted by elarchibaldo

Pendolinos are Angel
Voyagers are Halifax-bank-of-Scotland

Pedolinos are owned by Angel Trains
Voyagers are actually owned by a company called Halifax Assets Finance Limited

The Mark 3 loco hauled coaching stock set is owned by Porterbrook Leasing Company Limited
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint

Virgin did specify the 390/220/221 fleets and signed 15-year leases to get them built.
The 390s are maintained under contract from ICWC by the builder, Alstom, until 2022, the Voyagers by Bombardier until 2016.

The West Coast Trains Limited contract extension (April 2012 to December 2012) shows that the lease for the 390 and 211 fleets expires 09 December 2012 (page 32 of contract)

The details for the lease of the above won't be known until DfT publish the contract

Cross Country have a lease contract on their Voyagers to 31 March 2016

[LNW-GW Joint]

Originally Posted by rail-britain

The West Coast Trains Limited contract extension (April 2012 to December 2012) shows that the lease for the 390 and 211 fleets expires 09 December 2012 (page 32 of contract)
The details for the lease of the above won't be known until DfT publish the contract
Cross Country have a lease contract on their Voyagers to 31 March 2016

ICWC ITT p22:
The class 390 vehicles are covered by a Section 54 agreement until 31.03.2022;

The class 221 vehicles are covered by a Section 54 agreement until 31.03.2016.

The 221 agreement applies to XC's Voyagers as well.
This is a DfT commitment, which is then mapped on to particular franchises.

[David10]

Originally Posted by rail-britain

The West Coast Trains Limited contract extension (April 2012 to December 2012) shows that the lease for the 390 and 211 fleets expires 09 December 2012

If you read through the previous ITTs that list the existing rolling stock and leases, stock is only ever leased until the end of the franchise.

[jimm]

Originally Posted by Phil6219

Hmm, if they were on a 15 year lease then that would still put them with Virgin after the franchise has changed hands, it would be interesting if they held on to them as that would make a very good "up yours" to first...

Phil

This isn't like leasing a car, with a final optional payment to take ownership.

Train 'leasing' is actually train hiring. The trains remain the property of the Roscos.

First though do own some of FGW's rolling stock outright, having bought a few HSTs after they were withdrawn by Virgin XC.

[sprinterguy]

Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint

I don't know if the same group owns the class 222 variants.

Eversholt Rail own the 222s.