Season Ticket Split Query

otter11 · 6 Dec 2016

I will soon be commuting from Bradford on Avon (BOA) to Reading (RDG). Due to the times I will be travelling, I'll only be using trains via Westbury and Pewsey.

Doing some quick calculations, a couple of splitting options I saw were (all prices monthly):

1) BOA to RDG season ticket = £714.30

2) BOA to Pewsey season + Pewsey to RDG season = 242.70 + 277.30 = £520

Easy peasy, almost all trains stop at Pewsey so I would choose option 2)...

However, I did a bit more searching and then spotted:

3) BOA to Theale season + Theale to RDG season = 306.10 + 91.80 = £397.90

Am I correct that under the new Conditions of Travel, option 3) is valid, even if I use trains which do not stop at Theale? It is a massive saving compared to even the Pewsey split, so would be great to use it if possible.

If 3) is valid, do you think I am likely to experience problems with ticket inspectors on the train thinking otherwise?

Any help would be much appreciated!

RailUK Forums

Richard_B · 7 Dec 2016

Yes 3) is valid because of condition 14.2

On staff not knowing the rules I don't know, but presumably will be linked to how often checks are between reading and the previous stop.

otter11 · 7 Dec 2016

Thanks a lot.

Perhaps it would be wise for me to print out the relevant part of the Conditions of Travel, in case of any problems. I'm not keen to get into any arguments with train managers though...

philjo · 7 Dec 2016

I suspect the first one is priced to travel via Swindon (& presumably changing at Bath Spa?) as the Reading to Bath Spa monthly season is also £714.30

yorkie · 7 Dec 2016

I agree it's valid on non-stop trains.

However it's unlikely GWR have provided adequate training for their staff in respect of ticket checks, so on some occasions you may find the combination is queried.

There is no need to print the conditions, but it won't do any harm, if you are happy to do so.

otter11 · 7 Dec 2016

Yes, I agree about the first one being priced via Bath Spa, that makes sense.

I may print the conditions just to be safe, and will just hope that no ticket checks are made between Reading and Newbury on the non-stop services!

I wonder if any of these anomalies exist elsewhere...

yorkie · 7 Dec 2016

otter11 said:
Yes, I agree about the first one being priced via Bath Spa, that makes sense.

I may print the conditions just to be safe, and will just hope that no ticket checks are made between Reading and Newbury on the non-stop services!

I wonder if any of these anomalies exist elsewhere...

There are anomalies everywhere. Some pricing managers are very keen to spot them posted on the forum, so they can remove them.

A fares workshop may be of interest?

otter11 · 7 Dec 2016

Haha, perhaps I should delete this post then!

fizzwheel · 8 Dec 2016

otter11 said:
I may print the conditions just to be safe, and will just hope that no ticket checks are made between Reading and Newbury on the non-stop services!

I travel Between Castle Cary and Reading every day.

You will get ticket checked after Westbury though as thats where I normally get checked.

After Pewsey they are walking through the train asking people if they need to buy a ticket and the same after Hungerford if you are on a service that stops there.

After Newbury the train is full and standing so its very rare you will get ticket checked in my experience.

Hope that helps

otter11 · 9 Dec 2016

fizzwheel said:
I travel Between Castle Cary and Reading every day.

You will get ticket checked after Westbury though as thats where I normally get checked.

After Pewsey they are walking through the train asking people if they need to buy a ticket and the same after Hungerford if you are on a service that stops there.

After Newbury the train is full and standing so its very rare you will get ticket checked in my experience.

Hope that helps

Very helpful! Many thanks. Was the return experience from Reading similar in terms of ticket checks?

fizzwheel · 9 Dec 2016

otter11 said:
Very helpful! Many thanks. Was the return experience from Reading similar in terms of ticket checks?

On the way home I normally get checked after Westbury. The train manager will walk through but only in the course of his / her duties to work the doors despatch the train at stations before that, but not normally to do a ticket check.

Be warned the train is busy from Reading to Newbury. Your best strategy for getting a seat is to sit right at the front of the train in Coach A, which is the quiet coach, but I prefer that anyway. Or Coach B.

The train will empty significantly at Newbury so you can always shift seats then.

HTH

otter11 · 9 Dec 2016

fizzwheel said:
On the way home I normally get checked after Westbury. The train manager will walk through but only in the course of his / her duties to work the doors despatch the train at stations before that, but not normally to do a ticket check.

Be warned the train is busy from Reading to Newbury. Your best strategy for getting a seat is to sit right at the front of the train in Coach A, which is the quiet coach, but I prefer that anyway. Or Coach B.

The train will empty significantly at Newbury so you can always shift seats then.

HTH

Thanks a lot. I'll be travelling early am so will hopefully miss a bit of the morning rush, but will be coming home in the rush hour so those tips are very useful. I like the quiet coach too so that is a good shout.

otter11 · 16 Dec 2016

Ok so I have another query.

Suppose I buy my BOA to THE season ticket and THE-RDG season ticket. As I said my usual commute would be via Westbury.

On the odd day it could be useful for me to travel via Bath Spa instead (BOA to Bath then Bath to RDG). Would the BOA-THE season ticket be valid in this case? Journey planners seem to suggest that travelling via Bath and Reading is a valid route to Theale from BOA, but it does seem counter intutitive as you'd then have to 'double back' at Reading.

Many thanks in advance.

BOA = Bradford on Avon
THE = Theale
RDG = Reading

**EDIT: Actually, the National Rail website seems to suggest that BOA-THE is not valid via bath and reading - however the GWR website seems happy to sell me a ticket for that itinerary. Bit confused now...

otter11 · 9 Jan 2017

Sorry to bring up an old thread but was just wondering if anyone has any ideas regarding my previous post?

To summarise, using a Theale to Bradford-on-Avon season ticket, is it valid to use the route Reading->Bath->Bradford on Avon?

Many thanks,

R

embers25 · 9 Jan 2017

According to http://data.atoc.org/rp_calc it's only valid via Westbury

otter11 · 9 Jan 2017

embers25 said:
According to http://data.atoc.org/rp_calc it's only valid via Westbury

As I suspected, but thanks for clarifying. I thought there might be an easement or something, due to the fact that if travelling from Theale to Bradford on Avon the most sensible route would almost certainly be via Bath.

Romilly · 9 Jan 2017

I agree that this is slightly confusing, in that some journey planners will offer an itinerary via Bath for a Theale/Bradford-on-Avon ticket, whilst NRE says that two tickets are required for that journey.

The routeing guide says that Westbury Group is a routeing point both for Theale and for Bradford-on-Avon. This means that the only permitted routes are the shortest, a route not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest, and the route via Westbury (if not within the first two categories).

Theale to BOA via Westbury is 61.5 miles. Theale to BOA via Bath is 85.75 miles.

So I conclude that a Theale-BOA ticket is ... valid only via Westbury.

otter11 · 9 Jan 2017

Romilly said:
I agree that this is slightly confusing, in that some journey planners will offer an itinerary via Bath for a Theale/Bradford-on-Avon ticket, whilst NRE says that two tickets are required for that journey.

The routeing guide says that Westbury Group is a routeing point both for Theale and for Bradford-on-Avon. This means that the only permitted routes are the shortest, a route not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest, and the route via Westbury (if not within the first two categories).

Theale to BOA via Westbury is 61.5 miles. Theale to BOA via Bath is 85.75 miles.

So I conclude that a Theale-BOA ticket is not valid only via Westbury.

Very clear explanation, thanks very much.

Romilly · 10 Jan 2017

Glad to help, although you will presumably have realised that my final sentence was meant to say:

So I conclude that a Theale-BOA ticket is ... valid only via Westbury

Paul Kelly · 10 Jan 2017

otter11 said:
**EDIT: Actually, the National Rail website seems to suggest that BOA-THE is not valid via bath and reading - however the GWR website seems happy to sell me a ticket for that itinerary. Bit confused now...

The GWR website is powered by the Atos WebTIS booking engine, which seems to have quite a few bugs in its routeing guide implementation. I wouldn't trust what it tells you...

kieron · 10 Jan 2017

otter11 said:
As I suspected, but thanks for clarifying. I thought there might be an easement or something, due to the fact that if travelling from Theale to Bradford on Avon the most sensible route would almost certainly be via Bath.

There are some "Routeing Point" easements for both Bradford on Avon (700370) and Theale (40005 and 300391), but the National Rail site may decide not to consider these when the ends of a route has a routeing point in common.

otter11 · 10 Jan 2017

kieron said:
There are some "Routeing Point" easements for both Bradford on Avon (700370) and Theale (40005 and 300391), but the National Rail site may decide not to consider these when the ends of a route has a routeing point in common.

So is it correct that easements should not apply when stations have a common routing point? I did wonder if the 40005 easement was relevant here, but concluded it probably wasnt:

" Customers travelling from Bedwyn, Hungerford, Kintbury, Newbury, Newbury Racecourse, Thatcham, Midgham, Aldermaston and Theale to Didcot Parkway and
beyond may travel via Reading West. This easement applies in both directions."

kieron · 11 Jan 2017

otter11 said:
So is it correct that easements should not apply when stations have a common routing point?

I only know what has been published about it.

Page 10 of the National Routeing Guide in Detail document defines them as:

Routeing point easements, which allow a routeing point to be used which the
fares check would otherwise forbid. They may also disallow a routeing point
which the ordinary rules of the Routeing Guide would permit.

Page 4 defines the rule in terms of a situation where the origin and destination station do not have a routeing point in common. Both Bath and Reading would fail the fare check for a Bradford on Avon-Theale journey, but this would not affect the valid routes between them if there were no easements. What that means for a situation where there are easements is not set out explicitly in anything I've seen.

Paul Kelly · 12 Jan 2017

For the past year or two the official easement list has included a column "Category" - it is my understanding that easements of category "Routeing Point" or "Map" are not relevant for local journeys where there is a routeing point in common. But the other easements do apply.

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