Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,038
No problem. Thanks for the clarification.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal
- Thread starter hornbyfan99
- Start date
- Status
No problem. Thanks for the clarification.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Not the case for signwriters but true in some other. areas of work e.g. , people I know working on the busses tell me First have recently outsourced most of their cleaning operations so what are already probably the lowest payed staff will no doubt soon loose additional travel benefits etc too
Deepgreen
Established Member
It's already there - first class is seen as fair game for most, on the basis of the extreme likelihood of not being checked and even then only being asked to move.
However, I did witness a regular first class abuser the other day be caught out by the Southeastern guard on my Tonbridge train between East Croydon and Redhill. He was large and about 25 and she was diminutive and about 60. She charged him an additional sum for first class travel, initially from Clapham Junction to Redhill, but he objected with the feeble excuse that "there were no seats"! He started swearing about the situation (i.e. being caught) and generally being obnoxious and petulant but she stood her ground politely. She compromised on the additional fare only applying CJ to EC, as he moved to standard once she issued the fare after EC.
Good for her for standing firm. I was ready to step in if necessary, being much more his size than she was, but it proved unnecessary!
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
Yes this where i got mixed up as i thought that the subject was general outsourcing and not the specialised job. My experience of cleaners working for the likes of ISS, Servest, John Laing and most of the others was they were treated like someone who has trod in some excrement on the road. Some wouldnt even pay minimum wage and would use this against people whose English was poor. Many of the cleaners i came into contact with was that many of them were totally over qualified but it was the only job they could get which is such a shame.
Joe Paxton
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Jan 2017
- Messages
- 2,465
Perhaps worth sending a 'well done' to Southeastern about her doing a good job?
Southeastern contact form
Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,519
Perhaps they'll just wait for the 2nd anniversary.....
I've just been reading some of the posts from a year agk. Couple things that spring to mind after a year and more of dispute:
The RMT union still doesn't fully understand how to work the media and write press releases that put them in a more favourable light. They have got some of the press releases right so some improvements have occurred.
GTR on the other hand have shown they know how to write preee releases and work the media well but seem to be no good at managing a TOC. The latter being rather important.
Final thing the Government are rather busy with Britexit so they'd probably rather not have to bother with GTR dispute. Chris Grayling is useless anyway.
The RMT union still doesn't fully understand how to work the media and write press releases that put them in a more favourable light. They have got some of the press releases right so some improvements have occurred.
GTR on the other hand have shown they know how to write preee releases and work the media well but seem to be no good at managing a TOC. The latter being rather important.
Final thing the Government are rather busy with Britexit so they'd probably rather not have to bother with GTR dispute. Chris Grayling is useless anyway.
Deepgreen
Established Member
My thoughts exactly.
theironroad
Established Member
The RMT are holding a rally outside Parliament today between 1200-1400.
What's this "one year anniversary" nonsense that has crept into popular misusage? "Anniversary" by definition relates to complete years as anyone with even rudimentary knowledge of Latin or French would know. "First anniversary" is sufficient. And don't get me started on "six month anniversary"...
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Just had a nosey at the rally as it's 200 yards from work.
Pic too large to embed: http://m.imgur.com/xYOLvtT
Seemed reasonably well attended.
Pic too large to embed: http://m.imgur.com/xYOLvtT
Seemed reasonably well attended.
Last edited:
Deepgreen
Established Member
Quite - another example of the bizarre trend towards using more words rather than fewer. Language evolution is supposed to introduce efficiency and economy, not the reverse!
A new article about this dispute has appeared on the BBC website today
Southern rail: Seven facts about the dispute
Southern rail: Seven facts about the dispute
They've just finished two days of talks with more scheduled next week.
58,983 trains cancelled it more than 30 minutes late.
I wonder what percentage of those trains were cancelled due GTR not employing enough staff in the first place?
Also I wonder what percentages were from strike days; over time ban and any other reason combined, other than those two?
I wonder what percentage of those trains were cancelled due GTR not employing enough staff in the first place?
Also I wonder what percentages were from strike days; over time ban and any other reason combined, other than those two?
Last edited:
Do they go away and discuss the meetings amongst themseleves in the mean time?
It's amazing to think that both sides were avilable to meet any time during the dispute, except when one side offered such a meeting the day before going to court, yet it took ages for it to actually happen. There were always barriers.
Maybe one day someone will write an article on what enabled talks to take place so later on that didn't occur before? Would be interesting to have an article on the reasons why talks kept failing to take place until then.
We had so many press releases last year from GTR and now they are silent. Even when the ASLEF union members rejected the deal, I don't remember them heavily criticising them. Perhaps GTR have grown up?
It means it has been going on for a year, so a one year anniversary, or first anniversary, or about 50 weeks too long, it doesn't matter. Language hyper-pedantry doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Deepgreen
Established Member
That's it. It does matter (to some us at least), because language is how we communicate, and it's especially important in a written medium like this. The alternative is that everyone assumes that it doesn't matter and we end up with vague/verbose writing, or a reliance on symbols/'emoticons'.
An example from GWR - their platform lamp-post signs; "This is a no-smoking station". Or, more usefully - just "No smoking". The long version is not only needlessly long but implies that smoking may be allowed at other stations. The first rule of public messages is 'keep it concise'.
There is a trend in many areas these days wrongly to assume that embellishing messages with superfluous words somehow imbues them with more authority/status.
Last edited:
Or that other stations smoke.
Is smoking not allowed at Fishguard or Holyhead railway station? I thought it was.
I assume a station only refers to its buildings and no other land, otherwise they would be fining people for smoking outside a station and in the station car parks.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Fishguard Harbour is the sole example. A station includes the platforms, buildings and anywhere else where signs specifically state that smoking is banned. Have you never noticed the 'no smoking' signs on hundreds of stations' platforms (not just the buildings) around the country? If the signs are not there, the ban is not enforceable, and there are countless examples where most signs are missing or have never been provided. A local example for me is the platforms at Redhill.
The point, though, was about conciseness and brevity of language, and even that was OT.
The signs don't state its only where the signs are or within, is it 200m, of them
They just say station, which is why I use to think why are passengers not being stopped from smoking outside stations or in station car parks. use to think they were part of the stations. They are. It's just that the signs and/or recorded announcements don't contain enough information to make it clear what they mean by station in caae. Sometimes too little language can be used.
I have never smoked by the way. Can't stand the smell. Anyway as you stated, it's getting off topic.
How are the talks going? Any news or is it all gone top secret at this stage?
Last edited:
Perhaps the lack of any news means it has gione top secret.
It is now just over four months since conductors switched to the OBS role and nearly a month since the last strike.
tsr
Established Member
As I understand it, that's basically the case.
Rumour has it that the RMT are unlikely to call many, if any, more strikes. ASLEF may be different. Purely a rumour and nothing I can properly substantiate at this time.
Why? My understanding is that the ballot lasts for as long as the dispute exists when action was suspended at the request of the company in order for talks to take place, which they have been.
The most recent meeting was yesterday (4 May) with another day scheduled next week, following which a report will be made to the EC.
Deepgreen
Established Member
A wildly over-zealous OBS this morning kept apologising for the short formation of my train - it was the usual rostered five cars. He also advised us to change at Clapham Junction (immediately after leaving East Croydon) for London Bridge(!), SWT services to Epsom Downs(!) and an interminable string of every destination and mode of transport available, to the obvious irritation of other passengers, All these pointless and wrong announcements seemingly prevented him from checking tickets in first class, where several people were sitting who clearly didn't have first class tickets (the usual hesitate-and-sit brigade).
Well-meaning but misguided.
Well-meaning but misguided.
- Status