For inadvertently falling asleep? What if he's got some sort of medical problem? Frankly I find you passing judgment without the facts appalling.
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Another driver asleep on Croydon Tramlink
- Thread starter maniacmartin
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For inadvertently falling asleep? What if he's got some sort of medical problem? Frankly I find you passing judgment without the facts appalling.
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D1009
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That's why trains have a vigilance device.
Has it been proved that the fatal crash was caused by a driver falling asleep?
Anybody could fall asleep.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
There is no proof that the driver was actually asleep either during the crash incident, or that the chap in the video here was asleep either.
BestWestern
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Has it occured to you that very probably most of Tramlink's drivers have fallen asleep at some time, hence the above revelation? If they are all routinely suffering with fatigue, should the entire roster be sacked? How would you propose that things would be any better with replacement staff?
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You seem to be jumping to a ridiculous amount of conclusions.
Do you actually know anything about the culture and management?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
You don't know they were asleep and not suffering from a medical episode.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I'm talking about the specific incidents - the crash, and this one. You do not know and you are just going off your own conjecture and presenting them as certainties and facts. They are neither.
Ploughman
Established Member
Next time someone films them, don't just film for 3 minutes.
Film for about 1 - 1.30 then bang on the window to see if you get a reaction.
That should settle any argument about sleep or medical episode.
Film for about 1 - 1.30 then bang on the window to see if you get a reaction.
That should settle any argument about sleep or medical episode.
philthetube
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Does anyone know the legal hours a tram driver is allowed to work, I know it is a lot less strict than for an underground driver but have no idea how it compares with bus or lorry drivers. I suspect tram drivers are allowed to do more hours and take less breaks.
theageofthetra
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Why did a vigilance alarm not go off as it would in a train cab? -do trams have it linked to send a message via GSMR?
The tram vigilance device is the handle, it has to be depressed when in motion, otherwise an alarm sounds and the brakes apply. If stationary, it doesn't function.
I suspect many tram drivers have fallen asleep momentarily. They are hardly going to admit it if they are going to be prosecuted and jailed as you suggested.
cjmillsnun
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Apparently people did knock on the glass?
cjmillsnun
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Exactly. And that could've been the difference between life and death had it actually been a medical issue.
So what is your suggestion? The passengers should have broken down the door to the cab to check on the driver?
If reporting it to the press has a positive effect by putting it firmly in the public forum so it can't be ignored, is that not a good thing?
cjmillsnun
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Knock on the glass and ask if he is OK. Don't just sit there filming it.
Robertj21a
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Agreed, but it seems that there were a number of people there at the time. No reason why they can't be checking up on him while someone else is filming the situation - for the record that could be very helpful. I don't think anybody has suggested that just one person realised the problem - and then simply filmed it.
Well I wasn't there at the time so I don't feel qualified to pass judgment although that clearly doesn't matter to you:roll:
If by "In the past" you mean on a traditional tram then falling asleep would be more or less impossible as the drivers were mostly stood up and sometimes in the open.
The thing that strikes me is that we are hearing a lot about Croydon tram drivers but not about Metrolink, Nottingham, Sheffield and so forth. So surely it is worth considering whether the routes, the trams the working hours or some combination are especially conducive to this in Croydon.
The results of such a study should be useful to staff unions and management.
WatcherZero
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UK road passenger vehicle rules are the relevant ones I believe.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules
There is also EU rules which are stricter (45m break every 4.5 hours with limit of 9 hours per day with two 10 hour days but no more than 56 hours per week with no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks and a minimum of 11 hours rest a day) but UK has an exemption.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules
There is also EU rules which are stricter (45m break every 4.5 hours with limit of 9 hours per day with two 10 hour days but no more than 56 hours per week with no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks and a minimum of 11 hours rest a day) but UK has an exemption.
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