Another driver asleep on Croydon Tramlink

jbc said:

Well let's have a guess..............?

The fact is we are all at risk of unintentionally falling asleep.

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So, as expected, you don't actually know of the same problem reported on other UK tramways ? We can all conjecture, I was looking for some facts.

Robertj21a said:

So, as expected, you don't actually know of the same problem reported on other UK tramways ? We can all conjecture, I was looking for some facts.

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Then perhaps it is best to wait for the RAIB (and other) reports to become available.

Robertj21a said:

So, as expected, you don't actually know of the same problem reported on other UK tramways ? We can all conjecture, I was looking for some facts.

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And you don't know that it doesn't, it would obviously be a reasonable assumption that drivers on other tramways do suffer from tiredness on occasions wouldn't it?

jbc said:

And you don't know that it doesn't, it would obviously be a reasonable assumption that drivers on other tramways do suffer from tiredness on occasions wouldn't it?

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If you can't add anything to the discussion, other than trolling to waste everyone's time, it might be that you should be using your skills elsewhere.....

Robertj21a said:

If you can't add anything to the discussion, other than trolling to waste everyone's time, it might be that you should be using your skills elsewhere.....

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It's actually you trolling and wasting everybodys time with nonsensical questions:roll:

rebmcr said:

Then perhaps it is best to wait for the RAIB (and other) reports to become available.

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This thread isn't specifically about the accident but another report of a driver falling asleep at the controls.

BestWestern said:

Less so, I would say. The frequent stopping pattern and the stretches of on-street running are likely to make tram driving less tedious than heavy rail driving.

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I'm not sure about that. I've never driven a tram, however I have sat in the front seats on most of the UK systems looking through open blinds, and to me it looks a lot more monotonous than heavy rail or even LU driving. There's a lot of faffing around changing speeds, but apart from that one section and stop looks pretty similar to the next -- especially on our modern tram systems which were all generally built within the same time period and thus most stops look similar to one another. My suspicion is it's rather easy in these circumstances to go onto autopilot, which is just the situation where something can be missed if not fully alert.

On the railway, a golden SPAD-trap is where someone sights a fully-visible repeater signal displaying yellow, but being one that's often yellow (for one reason or another) the brain acknowledges and normalises this, but makes little or no reaction until the "oh sh*t" moment, by which time it's too late to avoid the SPAD. I could imagine this sort of scenario is pretty likely to occur when driving a tram on a repetitive route - obviously not the signal/SPAD scenario, but certainly possible for changes in speed or other features where a reaction is required.

Richard_B said:

Once is an accident, twice a coincidence, three times is a pattern. But 4!!! The 4th falling asleep suggests Anyone in charge of rostering and driver numbers should sacked before this chap.

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There are a fair few more than 4.

A couple of things from the "Greater Nottingham Light Rapid Transit Advisory Committee
Tuesday, 13th June, 2017 2.00 pm" minutes refering to the Croydon network

(k) Croydon Trams have introduced dynamic speed signs which automatically light up if a
trams speed is too high. Track side Chevrons have also been installed at curves. A
vigilance device will also be trialled which involves automatic braking if speed is not
adequately reduced by a set distance from the bend;

(l) the recommendations of the Royal Accident Investigation Board following the Croydon
incident are expected to be released at the end of June and will be considered in detail
by NET prior to the introduction of any changes;

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And as an aside,

(j) as a result of national incidents, NET continues to expand the monitoring of drivers
and has reduced the speed limits for trams on the three significant curves;

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Domh245 said:

The cab side windows are only openable on the older CR4000s. The variobahns (which this incident, and the other recorded one from just after the crash, took place in) don't have opening windows, but do have aircon (as do the CR4000s)

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You are not quite correct.

The CR4000 (older tram) has windows able to open to left and right of driver. There is no air con in the cab, but it has a retro fitted 'cab cool' which is very noisy and ineffective in hot weather. It is not air con, just a 'cooler' so 25 degrees becomes 22, for instance.

The Stadler, newer tram, has one side window, it is very hard to open. One has to straddle over the controls and use both hands to open it. If you are short in stature, its even harder to open. The tram has air con in the cab and passenger saloon, which when working (most of the time) is very effective. So much so, if the air con does not work in hot weather the tram is often withdrawn as the large windows make the tram unbearably and dangerously hot for passenger as well as the driver.