GWR Class 800

shaun · 15 Aug 2017

Good to see some positive things said about the IET from those who have actually been on them! I for one have been excited for a while about trying these out (having been a HST fan since the 80s when I first rode one), hopefully that opportunity will come in October. They certainly look very modern and 'Intercity', unlike the Voyager which looks cheap and dated even 15 years on. Always found the 395s very comfy, so if these are an improvement on those there's nothing to worry about!

RailUK Forums

800001 · 15 Aug 2017

For anyone who maybe interested, Azuma is heading north of Newcastle tomorrow (16/08/7). Working on test from Doncaster - Dunbar and Return. This is the 1st time an IEP will of ventured into Scotland.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk//K97228/2017/08/16/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk//K97229/2017/08/16/advanced

shaun · 15 Aug 2017

leomartin125 said:
In the cab, the second mans seat I'm pretty sure has been taken out of a 395 and plopped in there! Exactly the same. The seating in the IET's is a bit different to the Javelin, definitely built for more wear and tear and longer journey times.

Class 800 Cab and Class 395 Standard Class Interior below for reference.

Looks to me like a Standard Class Desiro seat rather than a Javelin one? Not that its a bad thing... They've bedded in well on the 350/444s over the years.

Bletchleyite · 15 Aug 2017

shaun said:
Looks to me like a Standard Class Desiro seat rather than a Javelin one? Not that its a bad thing... They've bedded in well on the 350/444s over the years.

Yep, it's a 350/1 type (Grammer Regional) seat - even has the same moquette by the looks of it!

Bletchleyite · 15 Aug 2017

shaun said:
Good to see some positive things said about the IET from those who have actually been on them! I for one have been excited for a while about trying these out (having been a HST fan since the 80s when I first rode one), hopefully that opportunity will come in October. They certainly look very modern and 'Intercity', unlike the Voyager which looks cheap and dated even 15 years on. Always found the 395s very comfy, so if these are an improvement on those there's nothing to worry about!

TBH the only misgiving of any significance I have of them is the high cost of the design and procurement process. I think they will be a good quality train and will last well and be quite popular.

TT-ONR-NRN · 16 Aug 2017

shaun said:
Good to see some positive things said about the IET from those who have actually been on them! I for one have been excited for a while about trying these out (having been a HST fan since the 80s when I first rode one), hopefully that opportunity will come in October. They certainly look very modern and 'Intercity', unlike the Voyager which looks cheap and dated even 15 years on. Always found the 395s very comfy, so if these are an improvement on those there's nothing to worry about!

I won't lie, I do love the sound of a XC 220 departing, gives me goosebumps even. Best diesel train sound in my opinion! I bet I'm on my own there!

Think XCs 220/221s look pretty good from the outside! The VT ones look dated though.

Bletchleyite · 16 Aug 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
I won't lie, I do love the sound of a XC 220 departing, gives me goosebumps even. Best diesel train sound in my opinion! I bet I'm on my own there!

At your age you've sadly missed out on the early days. When they first entered service they gave you a kick in the back like a plane taking off while having a powerful sound with the turbo whistle etc. Originally the way they were set up you'd even get lights going off as they started out, presumably to send more power to the traction motors.

Then they were reconfigured more sensibly

dp21 · 16 Aug 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
I couldn't agree more. They have more padding though.

More padding is good! Might be on my own but I quite like the 395 seats relatively speaking so if they're anything similar then I'm pleased. Anyway, my excitement about seats is now spent, carry on chaps!

swrailuser · 16 Aug 2017

NotATrainspott said:
Please remember that the vast majority of passenger kilometres on the IEP fleet will be done under the wires where there would be no need for the diesel engine to be active. On the East Coast the worst case scenario is the Highland Chieftan but that will still spend most of its journey under the wires - currently there are 4 hours and 39 minutes (London-Haymarket) under the wires compared to the total 8 hours 6 minute journey time. With EGIP wiring up to Dunblane, this becomes 5 hours 28 under the wires around the same time that the IEP fleet will replace the HSTs on EC. As the rolling programme of electrification continues this under-wire journey time increases more and more and so there will be less and less time spent with the diesel engine running.

yes great for an East coast rail user but not for a west country passenger where the train is in diesel mode for up to 80% of its journey

jimm · 16 Aug 2017

swrailuser said:
yes great for an East coast rail user but not for a west country passenger where the train is in diesel mode for up to 80% of its journey

If you have an issue with sitting in a coach with an engine, then you will be able to sit in the four coaches on nine-car and 2x5 Class 802 formations that don't have an MTU diesel under the floor.

Even if all had gone swimmingly with the Great Western electrification programme, any extension of overhead wires to Exeter or beyond would still have been many years away.

Contrary to some expectations, HSTs won't actually last forever - had the Scotrail franchise been let in the past year or so rather than at the end of 2014, they would have been buying new trains, not life-extending HSTs - and expecting 1970s diesel technology to mix it with 21st century electric traction on all the other services between London, Reading and Newbury for another decade or so makes no sense, which was why GWR pushed so hard to get the 802s approved.

spark001uk · 17 Aug 2017

Just thinking, once 800 / 802 are fully rolled out, I'm guessing there won't be the stock rotations at pad that there is with hst. So when an 800 comes in from Bristol for example, it won't be able to form a Penzance, etc. So that will need tweaking?

Pete_uk · 17 Aug 2017

I saw one! I saw one!

I was had just walked past the high ground by the newly dug out part of the canal outside Stroud at about half past nine when I heard a train. I looked around and coming over Capels Viaduct was a green 800. Of course, I had to be in a awkward spot but it seemed to be making good speed up the incline. I'm assuming it had stopped at Stroud or it was just going slow.

MonsooN · 17 Aug 2017

Just wondering - what will happen to the HSTs that are used by other companies (Grand Central, Cross country etc)

Will they have to retire their HSTs too? Will they replace the HSTs with something else?

AlexNL · 17 Aug 2017

It depends...

If the TOCs want to retain HSTs and the ROSCOs are willing to do the necessary investment to keep the fleet running (e.g. DDA compliancy) then I don't see why those HSTs would have to go.

If the TOC feels it's necessary to get younger stock, then the HSTs will go. Take Hull Trains for example, they have ordered a couple of 800's to replace relatively young 180's.

Wilts Wanderer · 17 Aug 2017

spark001uk said:
Just thinking, once 800 / 802 are fully rolled out, I'm guessing there won't be the stock rotations at pad that there is with hst. So when an 800 comes in from Bristol for example, it won't be able to form a Penzance, etc. So that will need tweaking?

From next January the existing GWR diagrams are tweaked so that in general the xx21 arrival from Plymouth/Penzance forms the next xx03 departure out. There are variations to this but in general the principle holds true. This accommodates the need to split West Country / non West Country workings.
(Worth remembering that any West Country service not going further west than Paignton will be potentially worked by an 800. There are diagrams via B&H to Exeter fairly early in the transition process.

najaB · 17 Aug 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
Best diesel train sound in my opinion!

Don't want to clutter up this thread with irrelevancies, but it doesn't even come close to a Valenta-powered HST.

leomartin125 · 17 Aug 2017

najaB said:
Don't want to clutter up this thread with irrelevancies, but it doesn't even come close to a Valenta-powered HST.

Or an MTU, or a 37, or a 55, or a 68, or a 40, or a 52, or a 50... It's quite far down my list, seemingly one above 'Voyager'.

IanXC · 17 Aug 2017

AlexNL said:
If the TOC feels it's necessary to get younger stock, then the HSTs will go. Take Hull Trains for example, they have ordered ~~a couple of~~ five 800's to replace relatively young 180's.

A couple sounds a bit mean! Corrected that for you!

michael74 · 18 Aug 2017

Wilts Wanderer said:
From next January the existing GWR diagrams are tweaked so that in general the xx21 arrival from Plymouth/Penzance forms the next xx03 departure out. There are variations to this but in general the principle holds true. This accommodates the need to split West Country / non West Country workings.
(Worth remembering that any West Country service not going further west than Paignton will be potentially worked by an 800. There are diagrams via B&H to Exeter fairly early in the transition process.

I suspect my Dyslexia is kicking in here, but are you saying Paignton will or will not be seeing the new trains? I always assumed they would?

najaB · 18 Aug 2017

michael74 said:
I suspect my Dyslexia is kicking in here, but are you saying Paignton will or will not be seeing the new trains? I always assumed they would?

As I read it: yes, but not right at introduction.

michael74 · 18 Aug 2017

michael74 said:
I suspect my Dyslexia is kicking in here, but are you saying Paignton will or will not be seeing the new trains? I always assumed they would?

Ignore me, of course they are, its early........ Out of interest does any one have any idea when they are running into Paignton on test runs?

michael74 · 18 Aug 2017

michael74 said:
Ignore me, of course they are, its early........ Out of interest does any one have any idea when they are running into Paignton on test runs?

Oh God above, I'm going to stop now, I did a simple search and got this http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/new-trains-for-devon-and-cornwall-begin-testing.html

Considering there is only x2 units in the SW and hardly got into Devon yet, no-one is going to really know yet.....

sprinterguy · 18 Aug 2017

MonsooN said:
Just wondering - what will happen to the HSTs that are used by other companies (Grand Central, Cross country etc)

Will they have to retire their HSTs too? Will they replace the HSTs with something else?

Grand Central's three HSTs are being replaced by the class 180s from GWR as soon as they become available (meant to be by December this year, don't know if that deadline has slipped), while Crosscountry's five sets are being fitted with power doors in the next few months for continued use beyond 2020 - first set due to be released from Doncaster works in the coming weeks.

jimm · 18 Aug 2017

AlexNL said:
It depends...

If the TOCs want to retain HSTs and the ROSCOs are willing to do the necessary investment to keep the fleet running (e.g. DDA compliancy) then I don't see why those HSTs would have to go.

If the TOC feels it's necessary to get younger stock, then the HSTs will go. Take Hull Trains for example, they have ordered a couple of 800's to replace relatively young 180's.

Hull Trains has ordered five Class 802s, not Class 800s, to replace all its Class 180s.

michael74 said:
I suspect my Dyslexia is kicking in here, but are you saying Paignton will or will not be seeing the new trains? I always assumed they would?

Yes, it will see the new trains. Class 800s were always intended to work as far to Exeter and Paignton on a regular basis as part of the IEP programme but they were not meant to work Plymouth/Cornwall trains - hence the separate order for Class 802s, to provide full engine power all the time for climbing the Devon banks.

As a result, a mix of 800s and 802s can now be expected on Exeter/Torbay services - though perhaps 800s mostly being seen at Paignton on summer extras.

D1009 · 18 Aug 2017

Wilts Wanderer said:
From next January the existing GWR diagrams are tweaked so that in general the xx21 arrival from Plymouth/Penzance forms the next xx03 departure out. There are variations to this but in general the principle holds true. This accommodates the need to split West Country / non West Country workings.
(Worth remembering that any West Country service not going further west than Paignton will be potentially worked by an 800. There are diagrams via B&H to Exeter fairly early in the transition process.

Does anyone have any idea what is going to happen to the current Padd - West of England via Bristol services? At first it looked as though they would no longer run, but is this still the case given the fact XC has gone quiet on its proposals to introduce extra services to Exeter, supposedly from Dec 2017? Also I am particularly concerned about the last up services on Saturdays and Sundays which run an hour and a half after the last XC service between Exeter and Bristol.

reddragon · 18 Aug 2017

800.003+800.004 stabled in Reading depot west end this afternoon

ExTankieAaron · 18 Aug 2017

Regarding VTEC.
Do you think they will call 800101 flying Scotsman?
Not sure of the railway rules regarding this no doubt die-hard enthusiasts will dismiss it right away as it's not a loco. It wouldn't be right not to have a flying Scotsman on the east coast.

reddragon · 18 Aug 2017

ExTankieAaron said:
Regarding VTEC.
Do you think they will call 800101 flying Scotsman?
Not sure of the railway rules regarding this no doubt die-hard enthusiasts will dismiss it right away as it's not a loco. It wouldn't be right not to have a flying Scotsman on the east coast.

No, it would have to be 800103

TT-ONR-NRN · 18 Aug 2017

najaB said:
Don't want to clutter up this thread with irrelevancies, but it doesn't even come close to a Valenta-powered HST.

Opinions, opinions

TT-ONR-NRN · 18 Aug 2017

D1009 said:
Does anyone have any idea what is going to happen to the current Padd - West of England via Bristol services? At first it looked as though they would no longer run, but is this still the case given the fact XC has gone quiet on its proposals to introduce extra services to Exeter, supposedly from Dec 2017? Also I am particularly concerned about the last up services on Saturdays and Sundays which run an hour and a half after the last XC service between Exeter and Bristol.

GWR are getting rid of most of them; diverting via the Berks and Hants Line.

GWR Class 800

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