London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

Chrism20 · 25 Sep 2017

As others have said it sounds great on paper, although from others I've spoken to they seemed to be under the impression that the offering was a sandwich/pastry or pay extra for two courses.

That is actually something I wouldn't object to if it was delivered and was of decent quality.

At the moment however I don't think VTEC are capable of being able to deliver anything on a consistent basis.

I've written numerous letters of disgust at the lack of an advertised complimentary service and they are fully aware of my thoughts on their "Subject to availability" tripe so they can be rest assured if something I've parted with hard earned for I would be none too pleased.

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ainsworth74 · 25 Sep 2017

Chrism20 said:
As others have said it sounds great on paper, although from others I've spoken to they seemed to be under the impression that the offering was a sandwich/pastry or pay extra for two courses.

From what I've seen it was definitely complimentary.

Blindtraveler · 25 Sep 2017

Given VTECs latest erformance Im filing this under wibble. The weekends are a game changer, the spirits smacks of further cheapening of the service, given West Coasts Scotch still flows freely with no hint of the distilarry slowing production.

Kite159 · 26 Sep 2017

If the new weekend offer is as good as it sounds, hopefully VTEC won't use it as an excuse to remove the lowest tier (or two) of First Class advance tickets, or as an excuse to increase the weekend first charge.

Chrism20 · 26 Sep 2017

Kite159 said:
If the new weekend offer is as good as it sounds, hopefully VTEC won't use it as an excuse to remove the lowest tier (or two) of First Class advance tickets, or as an excuse to increase the weekend first charge.

You can bet your life they will and I wouldn't be surprised if the Weekend First upgrade goes up in price as well.

Still you can always bid via Seatfrog.

ainsworth74 · 26 Sep 2017

I wonder how much the market could cope for it to be put up? It's already £25 for London to York and North.

Kite159 · 26 Sep 2017

ainsworth74 said:
I wonder how much the market could cope for it to be put up? It's already £25 for London to York and North.

Might end up being more levels of fares, i.e.
£25 for London to York. £30 London to Durham, £35 to say Berwick, £40 for Scotland & beyond

Butts · 26 Sep 2017

Kite159 said:
Might end up being more levels of fares, i.e.
£25 for London to York. £30 London to Durham, £35 to say Berwick, £40 for Scotland & beyond

Out of interest what is "beyond" Scotland on the East Coast Line ?

Kite159 · 26 Sep 2017

Butts said:
Out of interest what is "beyond" Scotland on the East Coast Line ?

I meant to have put "Edinburgh & Beyond".

jon0844 · 26 Sep 2017

Butts said:
It all looks spiffing on paper but the proof is the single or 2nd pudding If they can't manage the existing menu consistently thanks to the staff cuts how will this one work out ?

Yeah, they can offer the world if they apologise at the start of the journey for not being able to offer any of the above due to staff shortages.

jon0844 · 26 Sep 2017

Butts said:
Out of interest what is "beyond" Scotland on the East Coast Line ?

It's where the spirits will remain free.

ModernRailways · 27 Sep 2017

jon0844 said:
Yeah, they can offer the world if they apologise at the start of the journey for not being able to offer any of the above due to staff shortages.

And this is the flaw in this whole scheme.

The only way they can make it seem like this will happen is by offering compensation for when the catering fails. A voucher for the buffet car (show your 1st Class ticket and you'll get £10 to spend in the buffet), or something similar to that. But there needs to be something in place for people to trust them.

I knew a guy who used to travel on the 2000 off KGX in the evening in first class just for the food (every Thursday, I used to do similar because the fares were much cheaper ~£40 single), he changed to the 1900 for around 8 months, then I spotted him back on the 2000 in Standard Class. When we were getting off at Newcastle I jokingly asked him why he was slumming it and not in First and his basic response was 'The ticket cost has been rising, and the service level decreasing.'

FQTV · 27 Sep 2017

ModernRailways said:
I knew a guy who used to travel on the 2000 off KGX in the evening in first class just for the food (every Thursday, I used to do similar because the fares were much cheaper ~£40 single), he changed to the 1900 for around 8 months, then I spotted him back on the 2000 in Standard Class. When we were getting off at Newcastle I jokingly asked him why he was slumming it and not in First and his basic response was 'The ticket cost has been rising, and the service level decreasing.'

This reflects almost exactly how my use of VTEC has changed too, although in my case I am also changing at York quite a bit to be able to favour Transpennine Express, CrossCountry and Grand Central in combination.

As long as I am not weighed down by luggage and have a seat reservation, it's no great chore, and these latter three operators are a good deal less hubristic about their service levels. It's a big seat and a cup of poor coffee, and a lot less irritating for it.

Blindtraveler · 27 Sep 2017

Although Transpenine's coffee is a deal better these days, can't speek for GC but on XC its Frothbucks.

Chrism20 · 27 Sep 2017

That XC Starbucks stuff is dismal. I normally keep a couple of sachets of Nescafé Azera in my bag and just ask for milk and hot water, it's much nicer.

VTECs coffee is hit and miss as well but it's certainly better than XCs, however XCs tea is far better than VTEC - mainly due to it being bag in cup rather than out those pots.

robbeech · 27 Sep 2017

ainsworth74 said:
Short journeys

Fresh pastry and snacks.

Beers, wines, soft drinks, tea/coffee remain complimentary but spirits would be chargeable.

This is in the "short journeys" section you've outlined, does this mean that the spirits would only be chargeable on the short journeys, like the current offer is snacks only on short journeys, or do you imply that spirits will be chargeable throughout?

Blindtraveler · 27 Sep 2017

Glad to hear Im not the only one who walks around with coffee sticks.
XC's tea is good though agreed.

ainsworth74 · 28 Sep 2017

robbeech said:
This is in the "short journeys" section you've outlined, does this mean that the spirits would only be chargeable on the short journeys, like the current offer is snacks only on short journeys, or do you imply that spirits will be chargeable throughout?

Sorry, the drinks applies throughout. I will edit my post to make it clear what the situation is with drinks.

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

Hi everyone,

Newbie here, I've just signed up. I usually travel up to my parents a few times a year with my dog travelling from Kings Cross (after getting the train and tube from Dorking) to Newcastle. It is much more relaxed than driving up there. I do however encounter issues with my dog, he is very well behaved, but there isn't much room in standard class. So I have decided to start travelling first class with him, I particularly like the single rows of seats (both sides of teh train) that have plenty room to the side of the seat for him to sit/lie (no more arguments with the trolley pushers)

Although it is double the cost, after making the decision to travel first class, I've just realised that there are some perks:

- Use of the first class lounge, I can wait in comfort for my train, and also very handy in the winter
- Complimentary food and drinks (is this unlimited?)

Is there anything else that I should be aware of?

I buy advance tickets, so I'm hoping that doesn't exclude me from any of the perks?

TT-ONR-NRN · 29 Sep 2017

Ozziedog said:
Hi everyone,

Newbie here, I've just signed up. I usually travel up to my parents a few times a year with my dog travelling from Kings Cross (after getting the train and tube from Dorking) to Newcastle. It is much more relaxed than driving up there. I do however encounter issues with my dog, he is very well behaved, but there isn't much room in standard class. So I have decided to start travelling first class with him, I particularly like the single rows of seats (both sides of teh train) that have plenty room to the side of the seat for him to sit/lie (no more arguments with the trolley pushers)

Although it is double the cost, after making the decision to travel first class, I've just realised that there are some perks:

- Use of the first class lounge, I can wait in comfort for my train, and also very handy in the winter
- Complimentary food and drinks (is this unlimited?)

Is there anything else that I should be aware of?

I buy advance tickets, so I'm hoping that doesn't exclude me from any of the perks?

Oh. Um. The advance tickets aren't what you need to worry about. First class lounges may restrict you if you have a dog. Also, some TOCs dont allow passengers with dogs to sit on table seats, because other passengers are sometimes unhappy about dogs being under their legs....

Enjoy your journey though!!!

Go weekdays and you'll get hot meals and free wine!

Chrism20 · 29 Sep 2017

Ozziedog said:
Hi everyone,

Newbie here, I've just signed up. I usually travel up to my parents a few times a year with my dog travelling from Kings Cross (after getting the train and tube from Dorking) to Newcastle. It is much more relaxed than driving up there. I do however encounter issues with my dog, he is very well behaved, but there isn't much room in standard class. So I have decided to start travelling first class with him, I particularly like the single rows of seats (both sides of teh train) that have plenty room to the side of the seat for him to sit/lie (no more arguments with the trolley pushers)

Although it is double the cost, after making the decision to travel first class, I've just realised that there are some perks:

- Use of the first class lounge, I can wait in comfort for my train, and also very handy in the winter
- Complimentary food and drinks (is this unlimited?)

Is there anything else that I should be aware of?

I buy advance tickets, so I'm hoping that doesn't exclude me from any of the perks?

On an electric train seats 27/29/31/33 you will be able to let the dog sit at the side of the seat as there is a bit more space, however at any other seat in the carriage that will be more difficult as the seats in first class are wider which means there is only about the same amount of aisle space (maybe slightly more but we are talking an inch or two tops) as there is in standard.

There is a bit more legroom so the dog would be able to sit under the table but the aisle space is pretty much the same whilst the catering trolleys need to get through the first class carriages regularly with the first class service. If you are travelling a,one with the dog and can't get one of those four seats the single ones at the end of the carriage are your next best option as there will only be your feet under the table.

On an HST all the single seats are on the one side with no break in the middle like there is on the electric services.

Dogs are allowed in the lounges as long as they are well behaved so you should be fine there. They are comfortable and have tea, coffee, water, juice and usually biscuits.

The complimentary food isn't unlimited on the train. You will get one hot dish/sandwich plus crisps & cake and there will be a couple of runs with tea/coffee and alcohol depending on the time of day. If you are travelling at the weekend there is no hot food.

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

Chrism20 said:
On an electric train seats 27/29/31/33 you will be able to let the dog sit at the side of the seat as there is a bit more space, however at any other seat in the carriage that will be more difficult as the seats in first class are wider which means there is only about the same amount of aisle space (maybe slightly more but we are talking an inch or two tops) as there is in standard.

There is a bit more legroom so the dog would be able to sit under the table but the aisle space is pretty much the same whilst the catering trolleys need to get through the first class carriages regularly with the first class service. If you are travelling a,one with the dog and can't get one of those four seats the single ones at the end of the carriage are your next best option as there will only be your feet under the table.

On an HST all the single seats are on the one side with no break in the middle like there is on the electric services.

Dogs are allowed in the lounges as long as they are well behaved so you should be fine there. They are comfortable and have tea, coffee, water, juice and usually biscuits.

The complimentary food isn't unlimited on the train. You will get one hot dish/sandwich plus crisps & cake and there will be a couple of runs with tea/coffee and alcohol depending on the time of day. If you are travelling at the weekend there is no hot food.

Thanks, I've seen the seating plan and photos online, the seats I want to book are (and others like them) K27, 29, 31 and 33. Although if as you say the trolleys keep coming past it might not work out. He can't really sit under the table because I am not travelling with anyone, unless of course the seat opposite with me was vacant, does first class tend to fill up too? It would be great if it was half empty. I might have to revert back to plan A and simply buy a seat for him in standard class, that way there is guaranteed space for him, it would be a shame to miss out on the extra comfort of first class though (especially the lounges, while waiting for my train in the winter). I've just looked at the seating plan again, seats 31 and 29 look best to avoid problems with trolleys.

I wouldn't want to eat too much anyway, I was just checking that it wasn't just one drink. Sounds like travelling at the weekend might be best to avoid hot food, my dog is a Labrador and if people around me are eating proper dinners it might tease him too much.

I think that I have only ever travelled on the electric train, do they also run the HST on the same line? if so, is there any pattern in the timetable? Because obviously I want to travel on the electric trains for the extra space.

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
Oh. Um. The advance tickets aren't what you need to worry about. First class lounges may restrict you if you have a dog. Also, some TOCs dont allow passengers with dogs to sit on table seats, because other passengers are sometimes unhappy about dogs being under their legs....

Enjoy your journey though!!!

Go weekdays and you'll get hot meals and free wine!

Thanks, its OK well behaved dogs are allowed in the lounges, I wouldn't want him sitting under tables, I specifically want him alongside me to seats 27, 29, 31 or 33. I just hope that it doesn't prove too difficult with trolleys passing, after looking at the seating plan again seats 29 and 31 look better for allowing trolleys to pass.

ainsworth74 · 29 Sep 2017

You'll be fine in one of those seats for trolleys passing by assuming you've not got one of those dogs that are the size of a small pony! :lol:

In terms of busyness first is usually quieter than standard but it'll fill up. Northbound in the evening peak between maybe 1700 - 1830 will be usually busy (though the 1819 I've noticed is often quite quiet in first class and I often aim for it myself). Southbound anything arriving into Kings Cross before 1100 will often be quite busy.

The day of the week can often make a difference as well. Southbound Monday morning can be all seats in first taken whilst the same train on a Friday may be dead. The opposite can be true going Northbound.

dcsprior · 29 Sep 2017

Ozziedog said:
Thanks, I've seen the seating plan and photos online, the seats I want to book are (and others like them) K27, 29, 31 and 33.

Coach K is the quiet coach I think, so probably not a good one to choose with a dog.

Also these seats you'll be facing a stranger across the table so it may be a good idea to choose the one with a double seat behind, your dog can go alongside you but behind, rather than either someone opposite or someone in single seat behind having your dog next to them too.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

ainsworth74 · 29 Sep 2017

dcsprior said:
Coach K is the quiet coach I think, so probably not a good one to choose with a dog.

I've seen plenty of dogs in quiet coaches and I can't recall any of them being noisy! Now people making phone calls/taking phone calls or having a very loud conversation? Those I can recall plenty of :lol:

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

ainsworth74 said:
You'll be fine in one of those seats for trolleys passing by assuming you've not got one of those dogs that are the size of a small pony!

In terms of busyness first is usually quieter than standard but it'll fill up. Northbound in the evening peak between maybe 1700 - 1830 will be usually busy (though the 1819 I've noticed is often quite quiet in first class and I often aim for it myself). Southbound anything arriving into Kings Cross before 1100 will often be quite busy.

The day of the week can often make a difference as well. Southbound Monday morning can be all seats in first taken whilst the same train on a Friday may be dead. The opposite can be true going Northbound.

Thanks, that is useful to know, my dog comes first (its all about him, not me) so I could travel on a day that works for him, so going up to Newcastle on Mondays and coming back Fridays might become my plan. He is a Labrador, so medium size. I tend to get the 1.30 pm train going North from Kings Cross, and the 10.30 am train going South from Newcastle. I try and time it so the tube isn't too busy.

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

ainsworth74 said:
I've seen plenty of dogs in quiet coaches and I can't recall any of them being noisy! Now people making phone calls/taking phone calls or having a very loud conversation? Those I can recall plenty of

Ozzie (my Lab) is very quiet. In fact, there was one time when I was travelling back to London, and I had an argument with a fellow passenger who wouldn't shut up about it being a quiet carriage and dogs should not be allowed. Ozzie never made one single noise the whole time, so I said to him 'The only one creating noise in this quiet carriage is you'.

Ozziedog · 29 Sep 2017

dcsprior said:
Coach K is the quiet coach I think, so probably not a good one to choose with a dog.

Also these seats you'll be facing a stranger across the table so it may be a good idea to choose the one with a double seat behind, your dog can go alongside you but behind, rather than either someone opposite or someone in single seat behind having your dog next to them too.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Those are the seats that I mentioned above 29 and 31. I just rang Virgin and they said they didn't know when the trains were electric and diesel, but they are usually the same (so somebody somewhere must know). It is important because the diesel trains don't offer that wider aisle that seats 29 and 31 do in the electric trains.

I found a something online that seems to indicate that the diesel trains are used from Edinburgh going North, because the line has not been electrified. So only direct trains to Aberdeen from London would be diesel, (and starting from Edinburgh going North) unless circumstances dictated otherwise, does anyone know if that is correct?

Welshman · 29 Sep 2017

Ozziedog said:
Those are the seats that I mentioned above 29 and 31. I just rang Virgin and they said they didn't know when the trains were electric and diesel, but they are usually the same (so somebody somewhere must know). It is important because the diesel trains don't offer that wider aisle that seats 29 and 31 do in the electric trains.

Obviously, services going beyond Edinburgh to places like Inverness or Aberdeen will be HST diesel units.

Also, the 125 Society publishes a list of diesel services here:-

http://www.125group.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/HST-Diags-VTEC.pdf

Bear in mind though that these are liable to last-minute changes during times of disruption.

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

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