nedchester
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Possible but the map does show a bit of a 'dog leg' route from Darlington to Northallerton. The South Pennines Day Ranger does not shows what is a more direct route.
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South Pennine Day Ranger & Cross Country trains
- Thread starter nedchester
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Possible but the map does show a bit of a 'dog leg' route from Darlington to Northallerton. The South Pennines Day Ranger does not shows what is a more direct route.
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The Tyne and Tees Day Ranger is pretty clear, you'd have to be on a train departing from Thornaby to get to Northallerton according to the map. Most people would know that there are no stations between Darlington and Northallerton anyway. It's not as ambiguous as the South Pennines one, so anyone going to Northallerton via the ECML wouldn't get my sympathy when they have to buy a new ticket.
Having looked at the map, I see it is valid via Durham but not between Darlington and Northallerton so it's not as bad as I thought! Yes it is a lot more clear than the other map, but I still think they should do more. Also, while it's OK to say that everyone should realise that Darlo to Northallerton has no stations and is showing as indirect on the map, but the map is hardly realistic - I mean, anyone from the area is going to know that Bishop Auckland is north of Darlington, not west!
nedchester
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I am pleased to report positive news from this incident.
Got a letter from Cross Country today confirming the validity of a South Pennines Day Ranger on AXC between Sheffield and Wakefield and £8 back in travel vouchers. Letter can be found at:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211721.html
Oh and a picture of the Revenue Protection team charging me the excess:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211457.html
Got a letter from Cross Country today confirming the validity of a South Pennines Day Ranger on AXC between Sheffield and Wakefield and £8 back in travel vouchers. Letter can be found at:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211721.html
Oh and a picture of the Revenue Protection team charging me the excess:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211457.html
323235
Established Member
Excellent Result, Have you thought about forward this onto Northern, to see if it can help pave the way for changes to be made to avoid such problems in the future?
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DaveNewcastle
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Nice result!
Bet you're pleased - and relieved. But I guess the matter isn't quite finished until we know that XC staff are informed and/or have access to the correct information in the future.
I still think an exchange of letters between Northern and XC is still required to agree the validity, and an alteration to the leaflet to remove any doubt.
Bet you're pleased - and relieved. But I guess the matter isn't quite finished until we know that XC staff are informed and/or have access to the correct information in the future.
I still think an exchange of letters between Northern and XC is still required to agree the validity, and an alteration to the leaflet to remove any doubt.
D6700
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I am pleased to report positive news from this incident.
Got a letter from Cross Country today confirming the validity of a South Pennines Day Ranger on AXC between Sheffield and Wakefield and £8 back in travel vouchers. Letter can be found at:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211721.html
Oh and a picture of the Revenue Protection team charging me the excess:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211457.html
Good result there. I'm impressed with the speed of response too.
It's a shame, though, that the "guilty until proven otherwise" prevails in the public arena. i.e. being accused and threatened on the train is a public event, causing embarrassment and upset, whilst a letter confirming you were right all along is a private event. You are unable to show that letter to those who witnessed your humiliation.
Incidentally, for those obsessed with the minutiae of the maps and the all knowing "those trains don't go that way" attitude, take a look at Castleford. Two-thirds of trains between Leeds and Wakefield Kirkgate now avoid Castleford, running direct between Methley Jn and Altofts Jn. This line is not included in the map, but is undoubtedly "valid". As such, it is reasonable to assume that the map is merely illustrative and to help, not to hinder, journey planning.
nedchester
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Which is part of the reason that I have publicised this incident via this forum and also posted a picture of the train manager concerned on my website.
I may well pen a pleasant letter to Northern about this. I don't blame Northern at all. You can't put every single bit of track on Rover maps!!!
Surely if they hold a ticket from the previous stop on the ECML to the first station in the validity of the ranger (even though the train doesn't stop there) it'd be valid under the NRCoC
NRCoC said:
(emphasis added by me)
nedchester
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I think it says somewhere for this condition to be valid is that the leisure travel pass needs to be valid for three or more days?????
323235
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Yeh I believe a Day Ranger doesn't count as a "Leisure travel Pass" in this instance.
Further down in the condition it states :-
Further down in the condition it states :-
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I am pleased to report positive news from this incident.
Got a letter from Cross Country today confirming the validity of a South Pennines Day Ranger on AXC between Sheffield and Wakefield and £8 back in travel vouchers. Letter can be found at:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211721.html
Oh and a picture of the Revenue Protection team charging me the excess:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211457.html
Excellent. Sorry I thought otherwise before. My guess its the same with the TyneTees ranger which I have had accepted on the direct route from Northallerton to Darlo.
never needed to use a ranger/rover yettheblackwatch
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Whilts the speed of response is impressive as you say, I think the 'compensation' given in the form of just a refund of the excess is pretty insulting. I would have expected to have received some 'gesture of goodwill' from the company, as well as an actual reimbursement of the fare (not a voucher - the company effectively still has the money until the voucher is used).
Good result! Not totally surprising given that 158757 reported that XC control have already agreed it is valid, but nice to have it confirmed again.
What a shame that there are some people like that at XC. A 'desperate' guard was busy ensuring all customers had a totally valid ticket demanding to see all tickets even if he'd already seen them on a certain service last week and fussed over the slightest thing, yet did absolutely nothing when a group of travellers was travelling invalidly. This of course sends out a rather poor message that it's OK to be invalid if you're in a big group and being a bit rowdy. He said to the woman who was representing them that he didn't accept money on board as you have to "pay before you board". He said revenue would be at Sheffield but they weren't. The message is clear: you can be totally invalid if you're in a rowdy group but if you're a lone honest passenger, you get stung. Despite asking to see "final destinations" on all tickets, he gave no advice whatsoever.
On the other hand, there are some brilliant guards on XC, like a certain one whose first name begins with K who gives fantastic advice to passengers including where to change trains for their onward journey including platform numbers and even gives the connection times and suggests stations with the easiest interchanges. If all guards were like him then I think that we'd see a massive modal shift toward rail, seriously. Brilliant service. There's one or two on TPE who, while they don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of connections, will go out of their way to assist and look them up. Again, brilliant service and it's a shame that a very small minority let all these great guards down.
I agree with theblackwatch that the 'compensation' is woefully inadequate.
What a shame that there are some people like that at XC. A 'desperate' guard was busy ensuring all customers had a totally valid ticket demanding to see all tickets even if he'd already seen them on a certain service last week and fussed over the slightest thing, yet did absolutely nothing when a group of travellers was travelling invalidly. This of course sends out a rather poor message that it's OK to be invalid if you're in a big group and being a bit rowdy. He said to the woman who was representing them that he didn't accept money on board as you have to "pay before you board". He said revenue would be at Sheffield but they weren't. The message is clear: you can be totally invalid if you're in a rowdy group but if you're a lone honest passenger, you get stung. Despite asking to see "final destinations" on all tickets, he gave no advice whatsoever.
On the other hand, there are some brilliant guards on XC, like a certain one whose first name begins with K who gives fantastic advice to passengers including where to change trains for their onward journey including platform numbers and even gives the connection times and suggests stations with the easiest interchanges. If all guards were like him then I think that we'd see a massive modal shift toward rail, seriously. Brilliant service. There's one or two on TPE who, while they don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of connections, will go out of their way to assist and look them up. Again, brilliant service and it's a shame that a very small minority let all these great guards down.
I agree with theblackwatch that the 'compensation' is woefully inadequate.
Yellowcake
Member
I am pleased to report positive news from this incident.
Got a letter from Cross Country today confirming the validity of a South Pennines Day Ranger on AXC between Sheffield and Wakefield and £8 back in travel vouchers. Letter can be found at:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211721.html
Oh and a picture of the Revenue Protection team charging me the excess:
http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p64211457.html
Well thats certainly one in the eye for some of the hang em high bounty hunters on here.
nedchester
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Very true and I have thought of asking for a cheque instead of the voucher. I also feel a gesture of goodwill would have been nice. However, I think I have made my point and confirmed that the ticket is valid.
I agree with this and the railway in general. I think the railway has an unnecessary aggressive approach to ticket inspection. Why, for example, announce there will be a 'revenue protection inspection'? This is quite an aggressive term. Why not say 'I will be coming through the train doing a ticket inspection, please have your tickets ready'.
In many ways I think the railway has become obsessed with money whilst at the same time losing the customer care side.
I also think that inspectors should be taught that if there is any discrepancy then they should check before being aggressive with passengers. I am sure that the female inspector who was with the gripper on this occasion was willing to check but the male gripper just wanted to be aggressive about 'revenue protection' - not good.
I understand your logic, but the Tyne and Tees ticket isn't valid south of Darlington on the ECML, so even if they had a valid ticket for one part the Tyne + Tees wouldn't cover the other part. And it isn't classed as a leisure ticket so again it's not valid.
I guess the leaflet could be tidied up a bit, it does say that the ticket is valid on all train operator's services in the area (apart from GC), perhaps it should have a footnote saying "Only valid to Northallerton on TPE services from Thornaby and Yarm".
Another point to make would be is this ticket valid on Metro services between Newcastle, Heworth and Sunderland? A normal Newcastle - Sunderland single/return is valid on both light and heavy rail, as are some of the Metro issed tickets such as DaySavers. I know ALRs are not valid, but the Tyne and Tees leaflet says all services on the map.
flymo
Established Member
Interesting little thing here, on the National Rail website about the Tees Tyne Day Ranger it specifically states that:
From the details bit of this page
Yet in the leaflet available from Northern it does not say that.
I guess one could argue that boarding at Darlington and the next station was Northallerton, if there was no route shown on the information screen, how was anyone to know the ticket was not valid?
Just playing Devil's Advocate here but I cannot believe that any court could uphold the direct routeing as being invalid as it is not displayed as such on the information screens.
Rather like the recent thread involving Cross Country, Wakefield & Sheffield.
National Rail Website said:
From the details bit of this page
Yet in the leaflet available from Northern it does not say that.
I guess one could argue that boarding at Darlington and the next station was Northallerton, if there was no route shown on the information screen, how was anyone to know the ticket was not valid?
Just playing Devil's Advocate here but I cannot believe that any court could uphold the direct routeing as being invalid as it is not displayed as such on the information screens.
Rather like the recent thread involving Cross Country, Wakefield & Sheffield.
Solent&Wessex
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While on this occasion I am pleased to see a positive response - which I think is the correct one - I would not always go by every word that a customer relations team say.
Some several months ago I had cause to charge an XS fare to a 16 year old using a child ticket supported via a local authority travel pass which was not valid for the journey being made and for which the adult fare would be payable. When this person was unable to pay the XS fare I reported it as a ticket irregularity for the fare to be collected later.
Next thing I know is that I am having a word from the boss over my heavy handed behaviour. It turns out that the 16year old had returned to Mummy and regaled the story in a somewhat over exaggerated form. It was alleged I snatched her purse from her to look at her money and shouted at her - neither of which I did. It then also claimed I left her with no ticket - which I did not as I issued her a zero fare for her entire journey.
Customer relations had sent a grovelling apology saying I was in the wrong, her pass was valid and included a load of vouchers as compensation for the upset - without having first investigated the matter.
When I got wind of this I was furious and pointed out the relevant sections of the fares manual, insisted that the download of my Avantix was checked etc.
In the end they had to send another letter apologising for the original letter being wrong, and then send me an apology for not checking and making me look an idiot when I was clearly right.
Now I know this is slightly different, but it does show that customer relations don't always know everything at all, sometimes fail to check facts first and can make errors with their aswell.
Some several months ago I had cause to charge an XS fare to a 16 year old using a child ticket supported via a local authority travel pass which was not valid for the journey being made and for which the adult fare would be payable. When this person was unable to pay the XS fare I reported it as a ticket irregularity for the fare to be collected later.
Next thing I know is that I am having a word from the boss over my heavy handed behaviour. It turns out that the 16year old had returned to Mummy and regaled the story in a somewhat over exaggerated form. It was alleged I snatched her purse from her to look at her money and shouted at her - neither of which I did. It then also claimed I left her with no ticket - which I did not as I issued her a zero fare for her entire journey.
Customer relations had sent a grovelling apology saying I was in the wrong, her pass was valid and included a load of vouchers as compensation for the upset - without having first investigated the matter.
When I got wind of this I was furious and pointed out the relevant sections of the fares manual, insisted that the download of my Avantix was checked etc.
In the end they had to send another letter apologising for the original letter being wrong, and then send me an apology for not checking and making me look an idiot when I was clearly right.
Now I know this is slightly different, but it does show that customer relations don't always know everything at all, sometimes fail to check facts first and can make errors with their aswell.
On a related subject, I see the nnetwork daytripper Plus ticket covers zones 1-5 (as shown on this map) and rail services extending to Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwick (WRW), Leamington Spa (LMS), Kidderminster and Lichfield.
The two stations in bold are particularly relevant because they're next to each other on the same line, however LMS is also linked to Coventry which presumably means that WRW-LMS is not covered by the aforementioned rover. Considering that CrossCountry run half-hourly services between LMS and Birmingham New Street (alternately stopping/non-stop), which route do their non-stop services usually take?
The two stations in bold are particularly relevant because they're next to each other on the same line, however LMS is also linked to Coventry which presumably means that WRW-LMS is not covered by the aforementioned rover. Considering that CrossCountry run half-hourly services between LMS and Birmingham New Street (alternately stopping/non-stop), which route do their non-stop services usually take?
Ivo
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They run via Solihull. I didn't know that either - until one passed when I was there for the NWM Challenge (and Mojo advised as much).
D6700
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This weekend, Cross Country have trains calling at Wakefield Kirkgate, presumably running via Barnsley, so could be ultra-valid with the ranger!
Solent&Wessex
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Wakefield Kirkgate? That'll be nice for everyone. Watch out for the rats / druggies / hoodies / rapists / thieves and assorted other ne'er-do-wells. Oh, and if rain is forecast take an umbrella for when you are under the canopy.
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