"Break of journey" on an advance

Chapeltom · 28 Jan 2012

Tomorrow I go from Chapel en le Frith to Walsall. I've said BoJ because it technically is, but I'm not sure if I can do what I want to... read on.

Booked on the 1123 from Stockport to Stoke on Trent, suggested service is the 1038 from CEF to SPT, unreserved which gives a 11 minute connection.

I want to go into SPT on an earlier service to get some food/look round. Can I get the 0838 or 0938? Yes or no?

RailUK Forums

causton · 28 Jan 2012

Chapeltom said:
Tomorrow I go from Chapel en le Frith to Walsall. I've said BoJ because it technically is, but I'm not sure if I can do what I want to... read on.

Booked on the 1123 from Stockport to Stoke on Trent, suggested service is the 1038 from CEF to SPT, unreserved which gives a 11 minute connection.

I want to go into SPT on an earlier service to get some food/look round. Can I get the 0838 or 0938? Yes or no?

If the food/look round is inside the station you are 'using station facilities', so yes. If you're exiting the station then no (but should be allowed out of the ticket barriers if there are station facilities outside of the barriers - eg the pub at Euston or the Burger King at New Street

)

Chapeltom · 28 Jan 2012

There's no time on the ticket, I've reservations from SPT to SOT and SOT to Rugeley T.V

I always thought it was acceptable to get an earlier service on an unreserved leg

323235 · 28 Jan 2012

I would say you are free/ should have no problem getting an earlier train from Chapel En Le Frith to Stockport although technically your not allowed to leave the station but I don't see how this would be enforced really at a station like Stockport where the only barriers you are regularly likely to encounter are on the Platform 3 & 4 stairs and they would have no reason to challenge you.

SS4 · 28 Jan 2012

Break of Journey (BoJ) is not allowed on an advance ticket. However, using station facilities is not considered BoJ as long as you don't leave the premises.
Necessary changes of train are also allowed.

I would say you could get away with 0938 but I wouldn't try my luck on the 0838 since 2h11m is a long time for someone to use station facilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Note that the Chase Line from Rugeley TV is rather unreliable. I take it this was cheaper than going via Birmingham?

DJ737 · 28 Jan 2012

G'day

Can't imagine you getting any aggro with using an earlier connection as long as you don't leave Stockport Station.

Wave to my mate at Edgeley Jn No1 box as you go past. :lol:

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

PS I used to live in Chapel in the early 1980's.

yorkie · 28 Jan 2012

Break of journey is not permitted on Advance tickets, as defined in NRCoC.

NRCoC said:
16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a
return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for
the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in
the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However,
these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is
prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this clear in their
notices and other publications.

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This
excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold
and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that
would have entitled you to start, break and resume, or end your journey at that
station on the service(s) you have used.

A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or
Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at
any of the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.
7

For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated
as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s
stations after you start your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff.

causton · 28 Jan 2012

Chapeltom said:
There's no time on the ticket, I've reservations from SPT to SOT and SOT to Rugeley T.V

I always thought it was acceptable to get an earlier service on an unreserved leg

Never said you couldn't!

You can, but you'll just have to stay in the station (officially -- shh!)

Edit: ps Yorkie, couldn't (i) be manipulated in some way? Doesn't say the next train has to be at a station nearby, or even on the Advance ticket

yorkie · 28 Jan 2012

Chapeltom said:
I always thought it was acceptable to get an earlier service on an unreserved leg

It is, but that isn't what you asked. You asked if you could break your journey to take a look around Stockport, and the answer is no.

I make no comment about how enforceable it is, as that isn't the question, and you will know the answer better than me.

Chapeltom · 28 Jan 2012

I said in my first post it was an unreservable first leg and mentioned getting an early service, that's what I was asking - whether it was acceptable.

Seeing as it isn't, I'll probably get the 1038. But yes, I do know it isn't 'too enforceable'

yorkie · 28 Jan 2012

Chapeltom said:
I said in my first post it was an unreservable first leg and mentioned getting an early service, that's what I was asking - whether it was acceptable.

You said in your first post that you wanted to take an earlier train to "look around" Stockport. You have been given the right answer, you may take an earlier train but you are not allowed to break your journey (but there may be no enforcement of that) - the definition of which has been provided and does allow for some flexibility (ie, following staff instructions is acceptable, or in other words explaining to staff that you would like to exit and re-enter for a smoke/food/drink/look around, may result in you being given permission at the discretion of staff).

Chapeltom said:
Seeing as it isn't, I'll probably get the 1038. But yes, I do know it isn't 'too enforceable'

OK.

John @ home · 28 Jan 2012

You have not been told that it isn't acceptable to catch an earlier unreservable service instead of the later unreservable service shown on your Advance ticket itinerary. That is acceptable:

The Manual -> Ticket Validities -> Advance fares - Frequently Asked Questions

Q25 - Can a passenger with an Advance ticket travel on an earlier connecting train?

A: Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.

An exception that benefits passengers: Where East Coast is a connecting TOC from Stevenage via London and vice versa, e.g. “AP London Reading”, or “VWC & Connections”, East Coast waives the need to travel on the exact East Coast train booked on this relatively short journey Stevenage ↔ Kings Cross, even though retail systems will force a reservation to be made.

But you said in your first post that you were intending to do this "to get some food / have a look round". That phrase introduced the risk that you may actually be intending to break your journey, which is not allowed with this ticket.

Other posters in this thread have taken care to ensure that you know the detailed rule, so that you don't break it inadvertantly.

"Break of journey" on an advance

Chapeltom

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causton

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Chapeltom

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323235

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SS4

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DJ737

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yorkie

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causton

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yorkie

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