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Old 17th July 2017, 11:22   #946
Gareth Marston
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Originally Posted by craigybagel View Post
Shortage of 175s at the moment, not sure why, but the effects cascade down.
1006 through Newtown ran with only Aber portion this morning. 158's steping up on 175 diagrams.

This gives you an idea of what happens when just an extra unit or two are not available

https://www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales/


Quote:
Train Formation Updates
07:21 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 12:22
08:09 Birmingham International to Aberystwyth due 11:20
08:54 Llandudno Junction to Manchester Airport due 11:20
09:08 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly due 15:15
11:36 Manchester Airport to Llandudno due 14:03
12:32 Holyhead to Maesteg due 18:15
14:40 Llandudno to Manchester Piccadilly due 16:54
15:30 Manchester Piccadilly to Carmarthen due 20:58
17:19 Manchester Piccadilly to Chester due 18:22
18:20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central due 19:14
18:50 Chester to Manchester Airport due 20:20
19:34 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 00:48
20:32 Manchester Airport to Chester due 21:55
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:25   #947
jcollins
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Originally Posted by Gareth Marston View Post
1006 through Newtown ran with only Aber portion this morning. 158's steping up on 175 diagrams.

This gives you an idea of what happens when just an extra unit or two are not available

https://www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales/
Which is still a short list compared to Northern's list

Quote:
08:42 Carlisle to Barrow-In-Furness due 11:30
09:40 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport due 11:22
10:26 Manchester Victoria to Leeds due 12:03
10:26 Leeds to Manchester Victoria due 12:03
10:44 Kirkby to Blackburn due 13:11
11:14 Knottingley to Leeds due 11:52
11:18 York to Blackpool North due 14:15
11:29 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North due 13:09
11:40 Barrow-In-Furness to Carlisle due 14:26
11:46 Manchester Victoria to Southport due 12:57
12:00 Leeds to Knottingley due 12:36
12:18 Leeds to Manchester Victoria due 13:41
12:48 Manchester Victoria to Leeds due 14:10
12:53 Knottingley to Wakefield Kirkgate due 13:19
13:20 Blackburn to Wigan Wallgate due 15:13
13:40 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport due 15:23
13:57 Southport to Manchester Victoria due 15:10
14:35 Carlisle to Barrow-In-Furness due 17:23
15:11 Blackpool North to York due 18:01
17:31 Barrow-In-Furness to Carlisle due 20:31
18:27 York to Blackpool North due 21:16
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:28   #948
Gareth Marston
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Originally Posted by Rhydgaled View Post
Hurray, the franchise should now have enough stock to run the Halton curve service from December 2018 as promissed .

On the other hand, class 158s "to be taken out of service to be modified to comply with Persons of Reduced Mobility requirements"; even more inappropriate class 150s on south-west Wales services* to release a 158 for works. Why didn't they make the 158s compliant when were refurbished into their current condition (they were like-new when they came out in the new dark teal ATW livery, apart from the aircon still being unreliable)? Or is it really not about PRM at all in the case of the 158s but actually Network Rail demanding retention toilets by 2020 rather than giving the franchise time to aquire some more good-quality rolling stock to free up 158s for toilet work? If they do have to go away, any chance they'll fit a reliable aircon system as a consolation for being short of them for a while?

Also disapointing to read that the 319s for W&B will retain 2+3 seating, rather than getting an inner-suburban interior suitable for Swansea/Cardiff-Cheltenham services where their bi-mode capability will become useful once the wires are up.

* the 11:00 Swansea to Fishguard express was a 150 again on Saturday, have ATW lapsed into diagramming the awful things on express services again or is it still just a case of the south Wales 158s often seeming to end up in the wrong place for their booked work?
Given there's just 5 of them it seems to make sense to have a reciprocal maintenance agreement with Arriva Northern, so my guess is they'll do most of the Manchester Airport- N Wales diagrams so chance for pan up between Airport and ??? You probably wont see 158's off the Holyhead-Birmingham-Cambrian circuit and they'll be more 175's floating around West Wales.

Last edited by Gareth Marston; 17th July 2017 at 11:37.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:31   #949
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Which is still a short list compared to Northern's list
Well Northern is a bigger franchise.....
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Old 17th July 2017, 13:18   #950
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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Which is still a short list compared to Northern's list
And GWR (all these are West services but many are on the short Falmouth line)

10:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 13:45
11:04 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 13:23
11:53 Exmouth to Barnstaple due 13:37
12:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 15:45
12:48 Paignton to Cardiff Central due 16:18
12:51 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 13:14
12:53 Exmouth to Barnstaple due 14:37
13:01 Oxford to London Paddington due 14:01
13:20 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 13:48
13:43 Barnstaple to Exmouth due 15:21
13:51 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 14:14
13:59 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 16:00
14:20 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 14:48
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 17:54
14:43 Barnstaple to Exmouth due 16:18
14:51 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 15:14
15:20 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 15:48
15:24 Exmouth to Paignton due 16:54
15:51 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 16:14
16:07 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 18:17
16:15 Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway due 16:34
16:20 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 16:48
16:23 Exmouth to Barnstaple due 18:12
16:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 19:54
16:44 Bristol Parkway to Warminster due 18:04
16:51 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 17:15
16:57 Paignton to Exmouth due 18:29
17:27 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 17:55
17:59 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 18:23
18:14 Barnstaple to Exmouth due 20:07
18:18 Warminster to Westbury due 18:28
18:31 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 18:59
18:32 Exmouth to Barnstaple due 20:09
18:38 Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:29
19:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 21:02
19:02 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 19:26
19:29 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 19:55
20:04 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 20:28
20:15 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 20:50
20:24 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 21:40
20:31 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 20:57
21:05 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 21:29
21:32 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 21:59
21:55 Exeter Central to Exeter St Davids due 22:00
21:56 Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids due 23:37
22:44 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 23:08
23:11 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 23:38
--
It just shows what a dire situation many of the TOCs are in however.
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Old 17th July 2017, 15:25   #951
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In light of todays news of 769s being ordered for Arriva Trains Wales,
I will now clarify which content should be in which thread:Many thanks
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Old 17th July 2017, 16:47   #952
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Regarding the rather low frequency service pattern on Sundays on the Valley Lines network, could short shuttle workings be introduced for both the Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare arms?

What I have in mind is as the frequency along the common section between Cardiff (and points back) and Abercynon is every 60 minutes, with a train continuing beyond to each of Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil every 2 hours alternating. A short working from Aberdare to Abercynon in the opposite hour to connect with a through Merthyr Tydfil, and vice versa. This would give both arms a 60 minute frequency to Abercynon, with only one change if continuing south.

The train would work Cardiff - Aberdare (connect with Abercynon - Merthyr Tydfil short working) - Abercynon (connect with Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff and beyond train, and from the Cardiff - Merthyr Tydfil train) - Aberdare - Cardiff and beyond (with the short working from Merthyr Tydfil connecting into this train at Abercynon). The opposite pattern would obviously be Cardiff (and points previous) - Merthyr Tydfil (connect with Abercynon - Aberdare short working) - Abercynon (connect with train from Aberdare to Cardiff and points beyond, and from the Cardiff - Aberdare train) - Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff and beyond (with the short working from Aberdare connecting into this train at Abercynon). I don't know if the signalling at Abercynon would be able to support short workings to connect into and out of the opposite arm.

Or perhaps it would be easier and better to simply double the frequency to every 30 minutes between Cardiff and Abercynon, with both Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil having a frequency of every 60 minutes direct to Cardiff with no change of train required at Abercynon?
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Old 17th July 2017, 20:35   #953
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Originally Posted by adrock1976 View Post
Regarding the rather low frequency service pattern on Sundays on the Valley Lines network, could short shuttle workings be introduced for both the Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare arms?

What I have in mind is as the frequency along the common section between Cardiff (and points back) and Abercynon is every 60 minutes, with a train continuing beyond to each of Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil every 2 hours alternating. A short working from Aberdare to Abercynon in the opposite hour to connect with a through Merthyr Tydfil, and vice versa. This would give both arms a 60 minute frequency to Abercynon, with only one change if continuing south.

The train would work Cardiff - Aberdare (connect with Abercynon - Merthyr Tydfil short working) - Abercynon (connect with Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff and beyond train, and from the Cardiff - Merthyr Tydfil train) - Aberdare - Cardiff and beyond (with the short working from Merthyr Tydfil connecting into this train at Abercynon). The opposite pattern would obviously be Cardiff (and points previous) - Merthyr Tydfil (connect with Abercynon - Aberdare short working) - Abercynon (connect with train from Aberdare to Cardiff and points beyond, and from the Cardiff - Aberdare train) - Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff and beyond (with the short working from Aberdare connecting into this train at Abercynon). I don't know if the signalling at Abercynon would be able to support short workings to connect into and out of the opposite arm.

Or perhaps it would be easier and better to simply double the frequency to every 30 minutes between Cardiff and Abercynon, with both Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil having a frequency of every 60 minutes direct to Cardiff with no change of train required at Abercynon?
I'm pretty sure you'll see a regularized Sunday service on the full Valley Lines without any shuttle nonsense.
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Old 17th July 2017, 22:33   #954
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I'm pretty sure you'll see a regularized Sunday service on the full Valley Lines without any shuttle nonsense.
One of the early basics on new service and line developments by the likes of John Davies (who really saved the Valley networks in the 1980;s and onwards) was that every valley line would have a direct service to Cardiff at least. Sound and simple move.
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Old 18th July 2017, 19:52   #955
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Originally Posted by Rhydgaled View Post
Hurray, the franchise should now have enough stock to run the Halton curve service from December 2018 as promissed .

On the other hand, class 158s "to be taken out of service to be modified to comply with Persons of Reduced Mobility requirements"; even more inappropriate class 150s on south-west Wales services* to release a 158 for works. Why didn't they make the 158s compliant when were refurbished into their current condition (they were like-new when they came out in the new dark teal ATW livery, apart from the aircon still being unreliable)? Or is it really not about PRM at all in the case of the 158s but actually Network Rail demanding retention toilets by 2020 rather than giving the franchise time to aquire some more good-quality rolling stock to free up 158s for toilet work? If they do have to go away, any chance they'll fit a reliable aircon system as a consolation for being short of them for a while?

Also disapointing to read that the 319s for W&B will retain 2+3 seating, rather than getting an inner-suburban interior suitable for Swansea/Cardiff-Cheltenham services where their bi-mode capability will become useful once the wires are up.

* the 11:00 Swansea to Fishguard express was a 150 again on Saturday, have ATW lapsed into diagramming the awful things on express services again or is it still just a case of the south Wales 158s often seeming to end up in the wrong place for their booked work?
I have noticed quite a few changes recently whether temporary due to lack of 175s or permanent ive no idea. But the first Cardiff to Pembroke Dock service has been a 153 everytime ive seen it the last few months when its booked 150 as are all 3 of the main Pembroke Dock diagrams. And the Carmarthen-Swanline-Cardiff which passes Neath around 7am seems to be almost always a 150 now when booked 175. Im guessing a 150 must be in Carmarthen overnight in lieu of a 175 and the 21.xx from Cardiff to Milford Haven seems to be the one that is often a 150 when ive seen it.

Other examples include the Fishguard Boat train (daytime). I assume the arrival from Pembroke Dock into Swansea stays there until the 11.00 fishguard departure, before it went to Newport and back but there isn't time now with the much earlier departure time back to fishguard so it goes from Swansea. Its seems to be a 158 or 150 almost 50/50. Infact most days at least one of the South Wales 158 diagrams seems to be 150. Whatever runs the 16.04 off Cardiff to Fishguard seems to be what does the early Pembroke Dock and then Fishguard Boat train the next day.
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Old 18th July 2017, 20:24   #956
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I have noticed quite a few changes recently whether temporary due to lack of 175s or permanent ive no idea. But the first Cardiff to Pembroke Dock service has been a 153 everytime ive seen it the last few months when its booked 150 as are all 3 of the main Pembroke Dock diagrams. And the Carmarthen-Swanline-Cardiff which passes Neath around 7am seems to be almost always a 150 now when booked 175. Im guessing a 150 must be in Carmarthen overnight in lieu of a 175 and the 21.xx from Cardiff to Milford Haven seems to be the one that is often a 150 when ive seen it.

Other examples include the Fishguard Boat train (daytime). I assume the arrival from Pembroke Dock into Swansea stays there until the 11.00 fishguard departure, before it went to Newport and back but there isn't time now with the much earlier departure time back to fishguard so it goes from Swansea. Its seems to be a 158 or 150 almost 50/50. Infact most days at least one of the South Wales 158 diagrams seems to be 150. Whatever runs the 16.04 off Cardiff to Fishguard seems to be what does the early Pembroke Dock and then Fishguard Boat train the next day.
This is nothing to do with the new franchise as per the thread title but 0542 Cardiff to Pembroke Dock went back to 153 some months ago and the Carmarthen to Cardiff stopper is now booked for a 150. A pair of 150s come down on the 2103 Cardiff to Milford Haven also.
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Old 18th July 2017, 20:49   #957
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This is nothing to do with the new franchise as per the thread title but 0542 Cardiff to Pembroke Dock went back to 153 some months ago and the Carmarthen to Cardiff stopper is now booked for a 150. A pair of 150s come down on the 2103 Cardiff to Milford Haven also.
A few questions re this;

Does the 153 spend all day on Pembroke Dock diagrams and when does it return to Cardiff. Im guessing the 153 diagrams must be something like this now - 3x How/Swanline, 1 Pembroke, 1 Ebbw Vale, 1 City Line, 1 Cardiff Bay and 1 booked into Canton.

Where does the other 150 on the 21xx Cardiff to Milford go? And what forms the service to Holyhead at 09xx from Cardiff that the 175 that did the swanline stopper used to do?

Last edited by Jez; 18th July 2017 at 20:54.
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Old 18th July 2017, 21:17   #958
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A few questions re this;

Does the 153 spend all day on Pembroke Dock diagrams and when does it return to Cardiff. Im guessing the 153 diagrams must be something like this now - 3x How/Swanline, 1 Pembroke, 1 Ebbw Vale, 1 City Line, 1 Cardiff Bay and 1 booked into Canton.

Where does the other 150 on the 21xx Cardiff to Milford go? And what forms the service to Holyhead at 09xx from Cardiff that the 175 that did the swanline stopper used to do?
153 0n Pembroke Dock all day and returns to Cardiff the next night after day on Heart of Wales and Salop to Crewe local, The 150s go into Pembroke Dock workings and the 175 now goes to Cheltenham and Maesteg before the 0921 to Holyhead. Maximising spare time to squeeze Cardiff Valley strengthening.
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Old 18th July 2017, 21:29   #959
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153 0n Pembroke Dock all day and returns to Cardiff the next night after day on Heart of Wales and Salop to Crewe local, The 150s go into Pembroke Dock workings and the 175 now goes to Cheltenham and Maesteg before the 0921 to Holyhead. Maximising spare time to squeeze Cardiff Valley strengthening.
Thanks for the info. Im surprised the HOW/Crewe local is a 153 again, surprised there are enough 153s to cover everything they booked for. Do they still get used on City Line and Ebbw Vale?
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Old 18th July 2017, 22:58   #960
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Thanks for the info. Im surprised the HOW/Crewe local is a 153 again, surprised there are enough 153s to cover everything they booked for. Do they still get used on City Line and Ebbw Vale?
As I mentioned in another thread, there have been issues with keeping Chester drivers competent on 153s - when the Crewe-Shewsbury local went over to 150 operation, it meant that Chester drivers only had weekend work on 153s. Given the size of the link in question, it was something of an issue.

That said, I'm not sure that particular change has been made official yet - it's still often a 150 and still shows as a 150 on traincrew dockets.
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