RailUK Forums
RailUK Forums > UK Railway Forums > Traction & Rolling Stock


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 17th July 2017, 10:10   #16
Camden
Established Member
 
Join Date: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1,245
Default

Don't think they can get through the Mersey tunnels without the flat roof and having a pantograph on top, but if they can one issue I would identify is timekeeping.

Locals wouldn't be impressed if Merseyrail trains have to be cancelled entirely or at intermediate stations to get the system back running to time (standard practice) to make up for a late arriving interloper!

Perhaps more likely to be used on the new Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service? Pan up/down at Runcorn?
__________________
Sent from my computer using a keyboard and my digits.
Camden is offline   Reply With Quote
Registered users do not see these banners - join today!
Old 17th July 2017, 10:29   #17
jcollins
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 25,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camden View Post
Perhaps more likely to be used on the new Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service? Pan up/down at Runcorn?
That would seem a sensible plan considering:
1. The business plan was based on using 4 car 150s or equivalent but given the lack of available 150s, a bi-mode 769 is an equivalent.
2. The Allerton facility could be used for any maintenance.
3. Unlike other routes there are overheads which can be used for part of the journey.
__________________
New train company presents proposal to DfT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyj5cv5FPWA
jcollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 10:33   #18
MatthewRead
Member
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazthomas View Post
Great to see hand-me-down unproven stock being deployed in South Wales
They're great trains
MatthewRead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 11:05   #19
fgwrich
Established Member
 
fgwrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: 15 Apr 2009
Location: Between Edinburgh and Exeter
Posts: 4,777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewRead View Post
They're great trains
As 319s maybe, as 769s they're unproven and untested (yet).
fgwrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 11:38   #20
Bertie the bus
Member
 
Join Date: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 389
Default

Another nail in the coffin of the D-train. Good.
Bertie the bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 11:43   #21
jcollins
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 25,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgwrich View Post
As 319s maybe, as 769s they're unproven and untested (yet).
More accurately proven as successful trains for Thameslink. The reliability on Northern and LM routes is still way below the reliability of 323s and more on a par with Sprinters. Yet one of the selling points of electric trains is they are more reliable than diesel trains.
__________________
New train company presents proposal to DfT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyj5cv5FPWA
jcollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 11:52   #22
PaulHarding150
Member
 
PaulHarding150's Avatar
 
Join Date: 13 Feb 2011
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 367
Default

On further reading it seems that when these appear next year ATW will remove some of their existing stock to make them DDA compliment.

Obviously no news on the date that the five units will appear in Wales (they might come at once or they might come one at a time) but if units are then removed from the network for a period of time it could easily be January 2019 before there is any noticeable increase.
__________________
If the glass is half empty try and fill it up yourself, rather than complain that there's no one to do it for you.
PaulHarding150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 12:12   #23
MatthewRead
Member
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertie the bus View Post
Another nail in the coffin of the D-train. Good.
Oh no I hope the D trains finds some operating work.
MatthewRead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 12:25   #24
CosherB
Established Member
 
CosherB's Avatar
 
Join Date: 5 Jun 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewRead View Post
Oh no I hope the D trains finds some operating work.
And yet you also say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewRead View Post
They're great trains
So which do you prefer for diesel ops?
CosherB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:12   #25
LNW-GW Joint
Established Member
 
Join Date: 22 Feb 2011
Location: Mold, Clwyd
Posts: 9,925
Default

Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.
I doubt they will appear in South Wales.
Arriva will want to keep 769s on a short rein until their performance is proved.
It's also an "Arriva" solution, with shared services between Northern and ATW.
Presumably DfT and WG agreed the funding to get the PRM job on the road.
I should think Porterbrook would be happy too.
For once the industry is getting it right.
LNW-GW Joint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:20   #26
jcollins
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 25,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint View Post
Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.
Bidston service don't actually go through Chester and the total number required for Liverpool-Chester, Chester-Crewe and Bidston-Wrexham would be 5 units so that would require them all with no maintenance/spare and certainly nothing left over to work a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
__________________
New train company presents proposal to DfT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyj5cv5FPWA
jcollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:28   #27
mwmbwls
Member
 
Join Date: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 212
Default Curiouser and Curiouser

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
That would seem a sensible plan considering:
1. The business plan was based on using 4 car 150s or equivalent but given the lack of available 150s, a bi-mode 769 is an equivalent.
2. The Allerton facility could be used for any maintenance.
3. Unlike other routes there are overheads which can be used for part of the journey.
Have any 25kV wires been commissioned in Wales yet? What are the proposed commissioning dates? Is it now envisaged that work about to start on the Halton Curve will include preliminaries for electrification?
Is the link going to be wired in whole or in part from inception?

With Merseytravel gearing up for an all Stadler fleet I cannot see them welcoming 769's on their Metro network - disrupting the level train/platform programme.

Where do ATW run four car 150/158 sets now?
mwmbwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:50   #28
gareth950
Member
 
Join Date: 3 Nov 2013
Posts: 466
Default

So this is being hailed by some news outlets as an increase in capacity for W&B, yet these 5 extra trains will be used essentially as cover whilst presumably the equivalent number of 158s and/or 150/2s are away for mods. So no increase in capacity overall then.

Note also that the article says at the end that this is expected to allow the 'majority' of the W&B fleet to be compliant by 2020.
Presumably this means Pacers are going by 31/12/2019.

Last edited by gareth950; 17th July 2017 at 16:00.
gareth950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:50   #29
PaulHarding150
Member
 
PaulHarding150's Avatar
 
Join Date: 13 Feb 2011
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmbwls View Post
Have any 25kV wires been commissioned in Wales yet? What are the proposed commissioning dates? Is it now envisaged that work about to start on the Halton Curve will include preliminaries for electrification?
Is the link going to be wired in whole or in part from inception?

With Merseytravel gearing up for an all Stadler fleet I cannot see them welcoming 769's on their Metro network - disrupting the level train/platform programme.

Where do ATW run four car 150/158 sets now?
I traveled on a four car 158 yesterday from Hollyhead to Shrewsbury.

4 car 158s are often used on the Cambrian line and most peak time trains to/from Ebbw Vale are four cars made up of 150 and/or 158.
__________________
If the glass is half empty try and fill it up yourself, rather than complain that there's no one to do it for you.
PaulHarding150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2017, 14:51   #30
PHILIPE
Established Member
 
Join Date: 14 Nov 2011
Location: Caerphilly
Posts: 6,921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint View Post
Good news all round.
I expect the 5x769s will be based at Allerton with the rest of them, and will work the Liverpool-Chester service and other services through Chester.
Say the Crewe and Bidston shuttles, and maybe a couple of Manchester Airport diagrams.
ATW can then cascade onwards.
I doubt they will appear in South Wales.
Arriva will want to keep 769s on a short rein until their performance is proved.
It's also an "Arriva" solution, with shared services between Northern and ATW.
Presumably DfT and WG agreed the funding to get the PRM job on the road.
I should think Porterbrook would be happy too.
For once the industry is getting it right.
A 4 Car unit would be wasted on most of these in the north.
PHILIPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:47.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8
© RailUK Forums 2005 - 2017