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Old 8th January 2017, 21:27   #1
ash39
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Default Saturday London unit help

I'm in London for the day on Saturday 21st, wondered if anyone could help with some queries on unit allocations as it's not my local area. I'm mostly looking for help with 321's.

Do Great Northern run any 321s into Kings Cross on Saturdays? I'm sure I've seen them there in the past but from a brief look on realtimetrains, everything seems to be timed for 31X's or 365's. I know this isn't a guarantee of traction, but GN have services timed for 321's on weekdays so wondered if there was any significance in this. If someone could offer a brief overview of what services I can expect 321's to operate that'd be most helpful.

Greater Anglia, I'm pretty sure I can work out which services are 321's but are any booked as double or triple sets?

Do LM operate any 321's anymore or have they all gone to Scotrail? Any out of Euston on Saturdays if so?

Finally, not a 321 query, but if I was to seek out the handful of South West Trains Class 158's, do they operate in a common pool with the 159's or are they used on different services?

Any help appreciated
Thanks
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Old 8th January 2017, 22:02   #2
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GN 321s have mostly been replaced with 387s, not many left now. The went off to GA so not in service for a while.

GA 321s are booked on the Southends, and Braintrees. You can get a few on Clacton and Ipswich and Colchester Towns. However bear in mind that GA normally have major engineering works on weekends, so it may not be the best to try sometimes.

LMs 321s went in September 2015, and are now 319s. None are into EUS at weekends as they're peak time only. St Albans Abbey branch has them running, if its not broke down.

Im not sure on 158 with SWT, i know that the Romsey-Southamptons are normally 158s but other than that im not sure.
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Old 8th January 2017, 22:15   #3
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GA 321s are booked on the Southends, and Braintrees. You can get a few on Clacton and Ipswich and Colchester Towns. However bear in mind that GA normally have major engineering works on weekends, so it may not be the best to try sometimes.
Fortunately Sat 21 Jan is clear of engineering work on the GEML.

Trains are either 8 cars, or 4 cars on the less busy services. No 12 cars at weekends.
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Old 8th January 2017, 22:28   #4
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Thanks for the replies. Not even considered any engineering work so that's fortunate.

Aren't Great Northern keeping any 321's at all then? I knew a few were moving over but didn't realise they all were.
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Old 8th January 2017, 22:48   #5
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Thanks for the replies. Not even considered any engineering work so that's fortunate.

Aren't Great Northern keeping any 321's at all then? I knew a few were moving over but didn't realise they all were.
GTR are not keeping 321s on their Great Northern route according to this:
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Mod Note: Split from the c2c More Stock thread here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125589

Would 19 Class 377s be enough to replace 25 317s and 321s ?

Press release and Thameslink website claims that all 317 and 321s will be replaced by the end of the year.
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:09   #6
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I'm no SWT expert but I'm fairly sure most 158 booked work that includes London is only during weekday peaks for strengthening. Weekends and off peak it's just 159's AFAIU from Waterloo.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:24   #7
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I'm no SWT expert but I'm fairly sure most 158 booked work that includes London is only during weekday peaks for strengthening. Weekends and off peak it's just 159's AFAIU from Waterloo.
Separate diagrams
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:43   #8
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I'm no SWT expert but I'm fairly sure most 158 booked work that includes London is only during weekday peaks for strengthening. Weekends and off peak it's just 159's AFAIU from Waterloo.
Although a pair of 158s have popped up working a Salisbury local in place of an unavailable 159, although that isn't much use to the OP as they skip Clapham Junction both directions (XX:50 from Waterloo).

GA is useful as in general RTT will display if a service is 321 or a 360, and majority of the time it is correct
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Old 9th January 2017, 21:48   #9
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Thanks all for the pointers. Looks like I better get used to Stratford to Romford then!

Have the ex-GN 321's gone straight into service with AGA or are they being refurbished? I use abrail.co.uk to check fleet details but they still show them as GN allocated and FCC livery.
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Old 9th January 2017, 22:33   #10
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Have the ex-GN 321's gone straight into service with AGA or are they being refurbished? I use abrail.co.uk to check fleet details but they still show them as GN allocated and FCC livery.
Four of them were visible in the yard at Clacton with pantographs raised last Saturday. Don't know if any were locked in the shed.

To be honest they looked a bit rough compared to the GA 321s, so hopefully something will be done.
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Old 10th January 2017, 21:48   #11
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Strictly SWT 159/1 units are bog-standard 158s with a different number. Only the 159/0 units are 'true' 159 sets with pairs of high-powered 400hp Cummins engines on each car. (Although strictly some of the high-no 158/0 units were similarly engined!)
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Old 11th January 2017, 10:14   #12
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Originally Posted by 306024 View Post
Four of them were visible in the yard at Clacton with pantographs raised last Saturday. Don't know if any were locked in the shed.

To be honest they looked a bit rough compared to the GA 321s, so hopefully something will be done.
The current issue of Rail magazine is stating that 10 units have come over to GA, (402/405-10/418-20). 6 will receive the similar standard of refresh that the 321/4s that came from LM had in 2011/12. The remaining 4 units will only have a limited amount of work done on them as they are only staying as short term cover until the Renatus programme is complete in 2018. The remaining 3 units on the GN will eventually go to Scotrail as four car trains to cover for delays to the electrification programme up there.
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Old 11th January 2017, 16:07   #13
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Ok slightly different plan now, are there any SWT diagrams on saturdays that involve pairs of 444 or 450 units, or is everything single unit?

Thanks in advance
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Old 11th January 2017, 17:01   #14
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All Waterloo to Reading, Basingstoke, Alton, Haslemere and Portsmouth via Guildford Trains should be 8 450 most of Saturday during the day. Single 444s and occasional double 450s on Waterloo to Poole and Portsmouth via Eastleigh services. Double 444s should work most Weymouths although the Trains split at Bournemouth with one unit continuing to Weymouth. Single 450s also on Southampton to Portsmouth and some Guildford to Ascot runs.
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:11   #15
ash39
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Very helpful, thanks for taking the time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, one more query then my plan for the day is complete...

Anyone able to confirm if any of the below booked to be more than 4-car sets? Might fit in a run to Harrow and Wealdstone, would be more inclined to do so if they were double sets...

2T04 1726 Tring to London Euston
2T95 1734 London Euston to Tring
2T01 1805 London Euston to Tring
2T06 1756 Tring to London Euston

Thanks again

Last edited by ash39; 12th January 2017 at 21:11. Reason: Double post prevention system
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