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Old 11th January 2017, 14:51   #31
Hellfire
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Originally Posted by Altrincham View Post
I just experienced a beggar on the 0651 XC Stoke-Piccadilly.

A fella entered the packed carriage just after Macclesfield and loudly announced that he needed 21 quid to get somewhere. Clutching a fistful of pound coins, he told the carriage that if we didn't believe him then he would hand over his passport and IPhone. A number of people did hand money over.

Full credit to the train manager as BTP were waiting for the train on the arrival platform at Piccadilly.
It's because some people hand money over that these beggars are encouraged to do it. Most charities advise people never to give to beggars but, if you want to help a good cause, put it in a charity collection box. All too often the cash will be spent on drugs. The Underground is rife with them. Eastern European women carrying babies is a favourite tactic
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Old 11th January 2017, 18:40   #32
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As mentioned this is quite common in Germany as there are no barriers at any stations, and also common in France where nobody cares if you force open / crawl under the barriers. I've also experienced it in Spain and Luxembourg.

In Germany people seem to hand over money quite frequently.

I however had never encountered this in the UK until just before Christmas when a man made it onto the London Overground and started shouting out some rubbish, he then claimed to be a "travelling poet". Nobody even looked at him, he walked down two carriages and did it again, then for some reason came back and started spouting off again whereupon he was loudly heckled
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Old 11th January 2017, 18:53   #33
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The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:51   #34
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I admire how some beggars are quite honest. The other day a chap came up to me and asked me for 50p as "he needed to buy a can of Special (brew) from the offy"
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:56   #35
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Increase in beggars, increase in food banks? - the Tories must be in power!
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Old 11th January 2017, 22:57   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camden View Post
The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!
Hear hear!
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Old 11th January 2017, 23:51   #37
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Originally Posted by colchesterken View Post
I was stopped by a beggar in France I said I am English " N pale France Pa "
He then asked me for money in English I told him in English to s... off
A working knowledge of Welsh can be useful on these occasions ...
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Old 12th January 2017, 00:05   #38
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No sympathy for any of them. Mostly syringe vendors or alkies anyway
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Old 12th January 2017, 00:44   #39
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I've had a bloke stop me in Manchester multiple times. I've recognised him each time as he's asked if I'm from Manchester (as an attempt to make conversation, that dosen't change the request-I've answered yes and no!).

Each time he's had a story that he's not been able to afford his train to Leeds or he's missed his Megabus to Birmingham or whatever.

Last time I saw him was at Piccadilly station, claiming he was stranded and had spoken to TOC staff and BTP and they couldn't do anything, so did I have change for a coach fare. Not letting on I knew him, I offered to speak to BTP with him, to which he politely declined but still wanted money. I had a word with BTP anyway and told them the story. No idea how that ended sadly as I had to catch my last train home! Not seen him since though...

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Old 12th January 2017, 09:15   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camden View Post
The money being spent on drink and drugs is the least of the problems, as those are at least people begging for themselves. Can judge all you like about that, but it's simply a person who has fallen off life's tracks in some way and giving/not giving won't make any difference to that.

The big problem is those that are part of begging gangs, whether doing it for money or being manipulated in some way into doing it. The money people give ends up in real criminal pockets, to do who knows what with. That really needs tackling.

Unfortunately, it's a situation obviously complicated by the government's benefits regimes because the number of people driven to beg for money has multiplied in the last half a dozen years or so. Whether people are troubled or just down on their luck, if the government stops their money because they failed some arbitrary test or task then they have a choice of either asking for some or committing crime to get it. Stopping people's money doesn't make troubled people evaporate, and stopping the money of people down on their luck can easily tip them into the troubled category.

I would never suggest giving money to beggars, but I do think people should think about all of this more. It seems to me that as a society we are being hardened and taught to see cruel and unfortunate scenarios as "that's life", by a government trying to con us into still paying them tax but not having the social security system that goes with it.

I know who the real "beggars" are!
Never read such rubbish in all my life. My daughter was harassed by one of these wonderful misjudged and disadvantaged people down on their luck last year outside Ipswich station, when she said no to his demands for cash he pulled a screwdriver on her.
I was watching Janet Ellis ex of Blue Peter on tv yesterday and she said she never ever went past anybody asking for money and didn't give them something as she simply couldn't walk past.
This is the woman who has said telling someone to cheer up should be classed as a hate crime.
She is a fully paid up member of the N. London virtue signalling bleeding hearts brigade and with so many gullible do-gooders like her about no wonder so many scrotes see begging and crime as a wonderful career opportunity.

Last edited by Steveman; 12th January 2017 at 11:42.
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Old 12th January 2017, 09:56   #41
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What about the ones on the train begging for attention?

7:00AM, everyone is sleeping/drinking tea or coffee/reading the paper/looking at their phone or screen.

All except the motormouth...

This morning it was a monologue about car insurance. He/she (I won't mention which) was probably going on about it all the way from London.

Every single morning there is an individual within earshot who needs to be louder than everyone else in the carriage put together. I feel sorry for their colleagues who get 3 words in for their 300 as they announce their business to the world. This usually continues during the wait to get off and on the stairs from the platform.
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Old 12th January 2017, 11:19   #42
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I was approached by a beggar about 10 years back upon exiting Piccadilly , who asked if I had 'money for of a cup of tea?' .... I said if you want a cup of tea, we'll go to the nearest cafe and I'll gladly buy you one.... surprise, surprise, he declined.

This is not new, there's just more of them and they are getting bolder.

I don't give, end of.........
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Old 13th January 2017, 05:16   #43
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Earlier this evening I was making my way from Coventry to Chesterfield. Whilst the train was paused for 10 minutes or so at Birmingham New Street an individual boarded the train and in a very polite manner: "Can I have your attention please folks, I desperately need to catch this train to Newcastle when it leaves in a few minutes, I'm about £7 short of the fare, can anyone spare some change even if it's only 50p."

Like most I was suspicious and ignored him. And wondered:

Birmingham New Street (BHM) being a security conscious station, how did he get to the platform without a ticket? As walk on fares go, £7 towards Birmingham to Newcastle is a bit of a negligible contribution, thus if he was only £7 short he already had a lot more ready. (I checked on my phone which revealed that 5 minutes before departure an Advance single was available for £57).

Be honest. Who thinks he was merely an imaginative beggar? Anyone seen similar incidents?

Transport for London did an audit of rough sleepers and beggars on the transport network Something like 80% of them had a valid ticket for their journey. The beggar in question probably wasn't going to Newcastle. but either had a return ticket to another destination on the line or a season. They would probably travel up tand down the line all day collecting money and if challenged by an RPI or guard present a ticket that would appear valid for the journey (how is an rpi going to tell they have used the same ticket ten times that day).
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Old 13th January 2017, 08:17   #44
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People in desperate situations do desperate things. I`m a bit of a soft touch I guess, I always try to help the less fortunate and take my changes with the deviant. If someone homeless is sat outside say a McDonald s, I`ll go in and buy them a meal, or give money to big life sellers, I`m always a bit dubious of those that approach me directly for money, but have given this way. This is a society problem though, not an individual one.
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Old 13th January 2017, 08:42   #45
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People in desperate situations do desperate things. I`m a bit of a soft touch I guess, I always try to help the less fortunate and take my changes with the deviant. If someone homeless is sat outside say a McDonald s, I`ll go in and buy them a meal, or give money to big life sellers, I`m always a bit dubious of those that approach me directly for money, but have given this way. This is a society problem though, not an individual one.
I applaud your kindness, there's not much of it around nowadays!

Unfortunately, you're making matters even worse most of the time. Whatever you believe, the vast majority will have drug/alcohol/mental issues that require professional treatment - not funding to encourage them to continue in their current lifestyle. By all means buy them a tea, or a pint of milk, but any more really doesn't help them in the longer term.
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