RailUK Forums
RailUK Forums > Other Forums > Railway History & Nostalgia


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th January 2017, 04:15   #1
GusB
Member
 
GusB's Avatar
 
Join Date: 9 Jul 2016
Location: Moray
Posts: 233
Default "The Clansman" and other childhood memories

Sorry if this has been discussed in other threads - I did try to do a search, but it would seem that there is another forum member who has the name "Clansman", and that does rather distort the results

Most of my childhood train journeys were between Elgin and Glasgow or Coatbridge (depending which granny we went to see). The preferred journey, if I remember correctly, was go to from Elgin via Inverness, leaving shortly after 9am and arriving in Inverness in time to grab a cuppa and then board the southbound Clansman, from which we would alight at Coatbridge Central at some point in the afternoon.

I'm not entirely sure about the time frame, but I reckon it's between 1978-1983/4 (everything was still blue/grey). What stock would have been used on these journeys? I vaguely remember class 27s on the Elgin to Inverness leg of the journey. Would these have hauled Mk1s on this route? I'm sure that I remember air-con stock on the Clansman, but photographs I've seen from the late 70s would contradict this memory. Would this train have been 47-hauled?

Later on, the Clansman no longer stopped at Coatbridge (any idea when?), and more of our holiday journeys went via Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen street. For the return journey, I recall that there was one Sunday service that went from Queen St - Aberdeen - Inverness, which eliminated the change at Aberdeen. I reckon it was a push-pull set (I noted 47706 as the loco on one of these journeys), and I'm fairly certain that the stock was Mk3, as I'd never been on these before and they were something completely new to me. It couldn't have been long after this that the "ScotRail" livery was introduced, along with the "ScotRail Express" branding.

With my dad being in the RAF at the time, we had a lot of subsidised rail travel, and I remember talk of this being cut back. When did the "warrants" stop being a thing? I'd be grateful if anyone could help me fill in the gaps!
GusB is offline   Reply With Quote
Registered users do not see these banners - join today!
Old 5th January 2017, 05:59   #2
Springs Branch
Member
 
Springs Branch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 7 Nov 2013
Location: Where my keyboard has no £ key
Posts: 374
Default

I seem to remember a piece about The Clansman in Modern Railways magazine when the train first started running in the mid-1970s. The article said BR made a special point of assigning good quality Mk 2 air-conditioned rolling stock to the new service (IIRC this was when Mk3 stock was only just being deployed on the WCML).

Air-con Mk2 seems to have been the mainstay through the late 1970s & early 80s, along with the odd older non-airconditioned Mk2 carriage marshalled into the set, and of course a Mk1 Restaurant/Buffet. Haulage was Class 47 north of Mossend Yard and the usual WCML Class 87 or 86 south thereof.

This website has some pictures of The Clansman in the Blue & Grey era:- http://www.eastbank.org.uk/highland.htm

There are also a few images on Flickr if you search for them, e.g. https://flic.kr/p/i6ZTtL

and these.....

47467 Inverness by Andy Hoare, on Flickr


The Clansman at Millburn Junction, Inverness - 1981 by Steve Payne Photography, on Flickr

Last edited by Springs Branch; 5th January 2017 at 09:41.
Springs Branch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2017, 12:21   #3
Greenback
Moderator
 
Greenback's Avatar
 
Join Date: 9 Aug 2009
Location: Llanelli
Posts: 15,251
Default

I was always fascinated by trains like The Clansman when I started getting the old BR timetable books way back in 1981. The first couple I bought had lots of sleeper services in them, too!

I always wanted to ride direct to Inverness via the West Coast route. Sadly, I never got around to it
Greenback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2017, 18:33   #4
Dr Hoo
Member
 
Dr Hoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 Nov 2015
Posts: 290
Default

Sometime in the late 1980s the Clansman was diverted to run via Edinburgh and Carstairs, reversing twice. This obviously made it far more useful for internal Scottish journeys, rather than changing at Stirling. It also integrated it more fully into the core West Midlands-Scotland via WCML pattern.

With sectorisation and Scotrail's switch from locomotive haulage to Class 158 DMUs the overall resourcing package north of Edinburgh became far less favourable to the operation of one-off Inter City trains. The HST Highland Chieftain had already become well established as the prime daytime London to Inverness service, replacing the Clansman's original role.

I think that the service ceased around 1991, broadly as part of the ECML electrification package and consequent re-orientation of the WCML more towards intermediate business.

In 1992 Inter City operated a summer only internal Scottish working Inverness -Edinburgh return as a 'last vestige' but this was not perpetuated.

The original Clansman was a great train that I enjoyed using in many ways from 1974 but it outlived its original usefulness for all sorts of reasons (such as the decline of the Mail and parcels business).
__________________
The secret of going quickly is not to go slowly

Last edited by Dr Hoo; 8th January 2017 at 17:35. Reason: Typo
Dr Hoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2017, 20:17   #5
30907
Established Member
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2012
Location: North Lancs Loop
Posts: 3,637
Default

A Google search comes up with

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104196

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2528842

I'm sure I've read other stuff about the workings on the forum but can't locate it
30907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 22:00   #6
47271
Established Member
 
47271's Avatar
 
Join Date: 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusB View Post
What stock would have been used on these journeys? I vaguely remember class 27s on the Elgin to Inverness leg of the journey. Would these have hauled Mk1s on this route?
Just on this part of it, Aberdeen-Inverness services switched from Class 120 dmus to Class 27 locos + 6 Mk1 (mainly quite elderly steam heat SKs) in March 1980.

The route further moved on to 47s + early mk2s within a couple of years, and certainly before you stopped making the journey.

As for The Clansman, I'm told that it was regarded as quite hi tech on the HML in the 1970s with its fancy 47/4 locos and nearly new aircon mk2s. It usually ran with ten vehicles, which must have been slow up Slochd and Drumochter.

At the time everything else on the route was a mixture of steam heat mk1/early mk2 with double headed 26s/solo 40s/47/0s - indeed my namesake 47271 being an ultra regular at the time.
47271 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 22:42   #7
GusB
Member
 
GusB's Avatar
 
Join Date: 9 Jul 2016
Location: Moray
Posts: 233
Default

I do remember the Clansman being quite a long train - for a 4 or 5 year old child the journey to the buffet car seemed to take ages. I always wondered what those mysterious carriages beyond the buffet were for (the ones with the strange orangey seats), but I was always told "you're not allowed in there!".

On the Aberdeen - Inverness line, I definitely remember the corridor stock and the class 27s, but I have no clear memories of the 120s even though I must have travelled on them at some point.

You mention 47271 - was 47272 also a regular in this neck of the woods? It's one locomotive number that seems to have stuck in my mind for some reason.

Things became a little bit more colourful when I was in my teens with a bit more variety in liveries, but then the Sprinters came along and I began to lose interest shortly after.
GusB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 22:53   #8
Cowley
I'm only here to relax
Established Member
 
Cowley's Avatar
 
Join Date: 15 Apr 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,068
Default

Scotland was pretty much the last bastion of steam heat from what I remember, they used it up to at least 1986 I think and quite often regions were allocated batches of 47s with similar numbers, so were the batch around 47271/272 etc all allocated to the Scr around then does anyone knowledgeable know?
That photo of the 47 leaving Inverness with the plows on is great by the way.

edit - Just realised that 47271 became 47604 which was one of my favourite Scottish 47s and no doubt a regular Clansman performer.

Last edited by Cowley; 7th January 2017 at 23:11.
Cowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2017, 00:19   #9
47271
Established Member
 
47271's Avatar
 
Join Date: 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 1,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowley View Post
Scotland was pretty much the last bastion of steam heat from what I remember, they used it up to at least 1986 I think and quite often regions were allocated batches of 47s with similar numbers, so were the batch around 47271/272 etc all allocated to the Scr around then does anyone knowledgeable know?
That photo of the 47 leaving Inverness with the plows on is great by the way.

edit - Just realised that 47271 became 47604 which was one of my favourite Scottish 47s and no doubt a regular Clansman performer.
Indeed 47271 is still very much with us and was one of the Royal Scotsman locos as 47854 until that went over to 66s recently.

There was a batch of them allocated to Haymarket, 268-274 I believe, and they were all HML regulars of the era. My profile photo (not my work, I wasn't around at the time) is of 271 at Newtonmore in the late 70s.

My Dad has a lot of photos from Scottish Region from the late 70s/early 80s, he or I must do something about scanning them and putting them online.
47271 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2017, 12:27   #10
Cowley
I'm only here to relax
Established Member
 
Cowley's Avatar
 
Join Date: 15 Apr 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47271 View Post
Indeed 47271 is still very much with us and was one of the Royal Scotsman locos as 47854 until that went over to 66s recently.

There was a batch of them allocated to Haymarket, 268-274 I believe, and they were all HML regulars of the era. My profile photo (not my work, I wasn't around at the time) is of 271 at Newtonmore in the late 70s.

My Dad has a lot of photos from Scottish Region from the late 70s/early 80s, he or I must do something about scanning them and putting them online.
I'd really like to see some of them. I know it's the opposite end of the country to me but I've always had a lot of love for the railways in Scotland and I spent a bit of time in the early 90s bashing them as my stepbrother lived in Aberdeen at that time.
Interesting thread.
Cowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2017, 11:35   #11
AJP62
Member
 
Join Date: 20 Nov 2009
Location: Macclesfield
Posts: 105
Default

When the Clansman was introduced it used one of the London - West Midland sets. The set formed an up train to from the West Midlands to Euston in the morning then headed off to Inverness, via the West Midlands. This did lead to a bit of an over provision of 1st Class the further north it went!

The train had a long stop each way in Carlisle to be watered.

Coaching changed with the diversion via Edinburgh and Mk3s, including the Brake Firsts it used bringing the 1st provision more in line with demand. These may have come before diversion via Edinburgh - was it a portion off a Glasgow working for a while?
AJP62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th January 2017, 22:38   #12
Helvellyn
Member
 
Helvellyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP62 View Post
Coaching changed with the diversion via Edinburgh and Mk3s, including the Brake Firsts it used bringing the 1st provision more in line with demand. These may have come before diversion via Edinburgh - was it a portion off a Glasgow working for a while?
It was the mid 1980s if I recall and also saw Mk 3B FOs used with the BFOs. Odd to think that this led to the odd "Pullman" branded (and named) FO ending up in Inverness.

It switched to being Mk 2F stock again towards the end. I think at one point this even included a Mk 2F RFB rather than a Mk 3A RFM. Provision of only buffet for such a long route must have been interesting given this was a time when you could still get an okay selection of food from an onboard restaurant buffet.
Helvellyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2017, 08:42   #13
cambsy
On Moderation
 
Join Date: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 296
Default

If I remember correctly, The Clansman was one of the first WCML trains to be timed for 110mph with an 87, when the line speed was increased from 100mph to 110mph when loco hauled mk3 started to be used, think went via Mossend, changed locos in the Mossend area.
cambsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:27.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8
© RailUK Forums 2005 - 2017