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Old 10th January 2017, 21:58   #1
Cowley
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Default Class 37s and generator cars on Scottish sleepers

Evening folks.

In August 1994 I travelled on a few sleeper trains in Scotland and at that time the Inverness and Aberdeen sleepers were operated by pairs of non ETH 37s with generator cars providing power for the stock.
I've been trying to find information such as headcodes, how long they were used on these services, train departure times etc but not having a lot of joy.
Does anyone know of any good sites or maybe have their own memories from this era?
The pairs of locos I recorded travelling behind were 37692+37693, 37683+37685 and 37154+37188.
Were there any others used?

Any info much appreciated
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Old 11th January 2017, 00:32   #2
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This might help:

Quote:
The 37s were largely replaced on the West Highland and Far North Lines by class 156 DMUs in 1989, but continued to see use on Summer services into the mid 1990s, when they also featured on Inverness - Edinburgh / Aberdeen routes. From 1992 to 1995 pairs of class 37s (with a generator coach for ETH) were used on the Intercity Sleeper trains north of Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen.
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/class+37

Plenty of photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=...er%20inverness

I was aware of the ETHELs that were used on the WHL before the 37/4s were introduced, but I hadn't realised until now that they had used generator cars. Would these have been detatched when the AC traction took over?
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:57   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusB View Post
This might help:



http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/class+37

Plenty of photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=...er%20inverness

I was aware of the ETHELs that were used on the WHL before the 37/4s were introduced, but I hadn't realised until now that they had used generator cars. Would these have been detatched when the AC traction took over?
Thanks GusB, I'd seen the scot-rail site but I'll have a look through the photos later when I get back from work.
I'm not sure what the arrangement was with the generator cars actually. I suppose that's another question.

Last edited by Cowley; 11th January 2017 at 07:58.
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:19   #4
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Pairs of no-heat 37s worked the Inverness and Aberdeen sleepers with generator cars from 17th May 1992 until May 1995.

Inverness depot was allocated a number of locos in the IISA pool to work both the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers, which were also available to work Intercity Landcruises and luxury trains. The locos in this pool during this period (not necessarily all at the same time) were as follows:

37080
37113/133/152/170/175/194
37214/221/250/251/262/285
37505/510
37683/685

Seven of these locos, numbers 37152/221/251/505/510/683/685, received Intercity swallow livery to match the coaching stock. Other locos retained Trainload Freight or Civil Link liveries.

Locos from other Scottish pools were also known to drop onto these trains fairly frequently: For example, all of 37154/184, 37692/693 which you had haulage from were sourced from Motherwell's FCPM pool for Trainload Coal (latterly Transrail) locos which technically weren't meant to have any rostered passenger work. Inverness' RAJV pool for Regional Railways Infrastructure locos also allowed split box machines such as 37025, 069 and 087 to appear on these turns.

One pair of locos were rostered to work the following:
1S25 04:10 Edinburgh - Inverness (The 20:55 from Euston)
1M16 20:20 Inverness - Edinburgh

And a second pair as follows:
1S79 04:45 Edinburgh - Aberdeen (22:03 from Euston)
1M12 21:25 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:41   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprinterguy View Post
Pairs of no-heat 37s worked the Inverness and Aberdeen sleepers with generator cars from 17th May 1992 until May 1995.

Inverness depot was allocated a number of locos in the IISA pool to work both the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers, which were also available to work Intercity Landcruises and luxury trains. The locos in this pool during this period (not necessarily all at the same time) were as follows:

37080
37113/133/152/170/175/194
37214/221/250/251/262/285
37505/510
37683/685

Seven of these locos, numbers 37152/221/251/505/510/683/685, received Intercity swallow livery to match the coaching stock. Other locos retained Trainload Freight or Civil Link liveries.

Locos from other Scottish pools were also known to drop onto these trains fairly frequently: For example, all of 37154/184, 37692/693 which you had haulage from were sourced from Motherwell's FCPM pool for Trainload Coal (latterly Transrail) locos which technically weren't meant to have any rostered passenger work. Inverness' RAJV pool for Regional Railways Infrastructure locos also allowed split box machines such as 37025, 069 and 087 to appear on these turns.

One pair of locos were rostered to work the following:
1S25 04:10 Edinburgh - Inverness (The 20:55 from Euston)
1M16 20:20 Inverness - Edinburgh

And a second pair as follows:
1S79 04:45 Edinburgh - Aberdeen (22:03 from Euston)
1M12 21:25 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Thanks Sprinterguy that's exactly what I needed. I didn't realise that so many could be used.
It was interesting to see freight locomotives being turned out in Intercity colours. Do you know if the generator cars were removed with the locos at Edinburgh?
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:46   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowley View Post
Do you know if the generator cars were removed with the locos at Edinburgh?
My understanding has always been that the generator van was always attached or detached along with the 37s at Edinburgh, though I've never known for sure: The trains were lengthy enough without them and it was out of necessity that the Inverness and Aberdeen trains operated as separate services out of Euston at the time: During the summer the Inverness train could consist north of Edinburgh of a generator van, seven or eight sleeper cars, a seated mark 2 FO, a mark 1 BG and four Motorail vans, and photos I recall seeing of the Aberdeen sleeper from around this time (nothing to hand, unfortunately) showed a similarly lengthy formation.
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Old 11th January 2017, 22:46   #7
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37154 and 37184 were actually allocated to inverness for a while if iirc also other locos allocated to inverness during this period apart from the ones already quoted i can remember are 37004 029 043 048 051 059 063 066 070 071 073 078 087 088 099 100 106 111 153 156 165 167 188 196 201 202 209 211 212 232 240 250 252 255 261 262 294 351 402 404 427 428 430 431 they would all no doubt have had turns on the sleeper. i think i can rember 712 714 and 893 on the inverness sleeper too

Last edited by Far north 37; 12th January 2017 at 01:44.
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Old 12th January 2017, 00:44   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprinterguy View Post
My understanding has always been that the generator van was always attached or detached along with the 37s at Edinburgh, though I've never known for sure: The trains were lengthy enough without them and it was out of necessity that the Inverness and Aberdeen trains operated as separate services out of Euston at the time: During the summer the Inverness train could consist north of Edinburgh of a generator van, seven or eight sleeper cars, a seated mark 2 FO, a mark 1 BG and four Motorail vans, and photos I recall seeing of the Aberdeen sleeper from around this time (nothing to hand, unfortunately) showed a similarly lengthy formation.
The trains were really long. I remember getting on one once and doing the usual thing of trying to get as near to the locos as possible and still being miles away.
Of course with a pair of them on the front you could probably hear them at the back of the train with the windows shut .
Along with the sleepers there were 37s on the Kyle line and the Oban line in 1994 when I was up there, it really was quite a lot of fun.
I'd forgotten about the Motorail vans too.
There's a lovely photo of 37685 and 37505 crossing Findhorn viaduct on the site that GusB said to look at but it says that if I use it/share it etc I will be executed by firing squad or similar so I didn't put it on here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Far north 37 View Post
37154 and 37184 were actually allocated to inverness for a while if iirc also other locos allocated to inverness during this period apart from the ones already quoted i can remember are 37004 029 043 048 051 059 063 066 071 073 078 087 088 099 100 106 111 153 156 165 167 188 196 201 202 209 211 212 232 240 250 255 261 262 294 351 402 404 427 428 430 431 they would all no doubt have had turns on the sleeper. i think i can rember 712 714 and 893 on the inverness sleeper too
I had a handful of those up there and I didn't realise up to now how many locos had been involved.

Last edited by Cowley; 12th January 2017 at 00:44. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 12th January 2017, 01:10   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowley View Post
The trains were really long. I remember getting on one once and doing the usual thing of trying to get as near to the locos as possible and still being miles away.
Of course with a pair of them on the front you could probably hear them at the back of the train with the windows shut .
Along with the sleepers there were 37s on the Kyle line and the Oban line in 1994 when I was up there, it really was quite a lot of fun.
I'd forgotten about the Motorail vans too.
There's a lovely photo of 37685 and 37505 crossing Findhorn viaduct on the site that GusB said to look at but it says that if I use it/share it etc I will be executed by firing squad or similar so I didn't put it on here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I had a handful of those up there and I didn't realise up to now how many locos had been involved.
yes there was a great variety of 37s around inverness in the days when they were working the sleeper the depot always had a few stabled outside 37215 was there a while but never made it past the outside of the depot think it was deemed to costly to repair i also remember eastfield petroleum locos 37707 and 708 working passenger trains out of inverness but think it was before the sleepers
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there was a few inverness 37 pools at the time there was a rajw weekend only pool and rajp was the passenger 37/4 pool im sure there was a iisw intercity weekend only departamental pool too

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Old 12th January 2017, 08:03   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowley View Post
I had a handful of those up there and I didn't realise up to now how many locos had been involved.
Yeah, at the time Inverness depot had an allocation of 46 class 37s, which for the early nineties is pretty impressive.

To be fair, as Far North 37 notes, it didn't seem to matter whether the locos were Inverness based Intercity or Regional Railways 'Infrastructure' (which worked the daytime passenger turns on the Kyle, Inverness - Aberdeen and Inverness - Edinburgh/Glasgow routes during the summer) ones, or Motherwell based Trainload Coal or Petroleum examples, they all seemed to have an equal chance of turning up on the sleepers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Far north 37 View Post
I also remember eastfield petroleum locos 37707 and 708 working passenger trains out of inverness but think it was before the sleepers
Yeah that would have been a couple of years before the sleepers became 37 hauled, by 1992 the Eastfield locos had been reallocated to Motherwell (though, as noted, that did nothing to stop them turning up on sleeper and passenger workings).
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Old 14th January 2017, 00:34   #11
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roddy macphees photos on flickr has sone great photos of class 37s around inverness at the time especially on the sleeper the link wont seem to copy in though though you can just goigle it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
[QUOTE=sprinterguy;2842383]Yeah, at the time Inverness depot had an allocation of 46 class 37s, which for the early nineties is pretty impressive.

To be fair, as Far North 37 notes, it didn't seem to matter whether the locos were Inverness based Intercity or Regional Railways 'Infrastructure' (which worked the daytime passenger turns on the Kyle, Inverness - Aberdeen and Inverness - Edinburgh/Glasgow routes during the summer) ones, or Motherwell based Trainload Coal or Petroleum examples, they all seemed to have an equal chance of turning up on the sleepers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

that was in the good old br common user policy days anything could pop up from any part of the country i think 37712 and 37714 when they were on the sleepers might even of been thornaby or immingham machines

Last edited by Far north 37; 14th January 2017 at 00:34. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 14th January 2017, 00:50   #12
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What I remember from back then too was that Intercity livery in it's various guises (including Mainline colours) was originally applied to ETH passenger allocated 47s plus electric locos like 73s, 86s, 87s and so on, but then started to appear on all kinds of stuff like 31s and also NB 37s including unrefurbished 37/0s which at the time seemed quite strange. They looked really good though, especially double headed on a Scottish sleeper service with a long train of matching stock.
I've looked through a lot of the photos, very interesting.
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:11   #13
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yes a lot of good memories then who would of thought u would be regretting moaning about to many 47s at inverness
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