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Old 15th March 2016, 16:54   #1
randyrippley
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Default Changes to subsidised services in Lancashire

Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/8...vices-list.pdf



DRAFT timetables are at http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/8...les-routes.pdf
these are subject to confirmation / further negotiation

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Old 15th March 2016, 17:02   #2
overthewater
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Originally Posted by randyrippley View Post
Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/8...vices-list.pdf



DRAFT timetables are at http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/8...les-routes.pdf
these are subject to confirmation / further negotiation
Looks like alot of stuff after 8pm is gone, so its not commercially viable after all. Its mainly around shift changes where the buses stay on, its also where said contracts make money to help pay for the under used journeys
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Old 15th March 2016, 17:22   #3
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Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable
Question is how will they fare as commercial routes? High Peak Buses attempted to run some routes in Cheshire commercially using less buses and hiking the fares and they were a complete failure. However, GHA Coaches' attempts to do the same thing in Cheshire have been more successful.

Note Catch22 Buses who were threatened with a 7 year operating ban are operating some of the commercial services, possibly an attempt to not get banned?
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Looks like alot of stuff after 8pm is gone, so its not commercially viable after all. Its mainly around shift changes where the buses stay on, its also where said contracts make money to help pay for the under used journeys
I expect some 'saved' routes will see later starts, earlier finishes and gaps in timetables to allow for a bus+driver doing a school/college contract or taking a break without another driver being used to provide cover.
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Old 15th March 2016, 17:25   #4
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Lancs County Council have published a list of the intended changes. Some services have been saved in part, but a lot of evening and sunday services have gone. Interesting that when pushed, a lot of the subsidised routes suddenly became commercially viable
I do find that rather suspicious myself, and always did. Funny how Arriva have decided a load of Sunday daytime services were commercially viable once MK Council said they weren't paying for them any more.

You can't really blame bus companies for this, after all they are in it for profit, but it is a serious flaw in the structure of the industry.
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Old 15th March 2016, 18:17   #5
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Looks to be the nail in the coffin for the "Cow Ark Flyer"....aka service 10 (Clitheroe - Hodder Valley circular service).
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Old 15th March 2016, 18:38   #6
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Looks to be the nail in the coffin for the "Cow Ark Flyer"....aka service 10 (Clitheroe - Hodder Valley circular service).
a car hardly fits down that road past Cow Ark, let alone a bus.
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Old 15th March 2016, 18:57   #7
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I do find that rather suspicious myself, and always did. Funny how Arriva have decided a load of Sunday daytime services were commercially viable once MK Council said they weren't paying for them any more.

You can't really blame bus companies for this, after all they are in it for profit, but it is a serious flaw in the structure of the industry.
Well, I'd reign in some of your suspicion. You have some journeys that are clearly not sustainable but bus companies will register them commercially in order to either ensure other commercial journeys aren't undermined (a laudable holistic vision) or they may decide that a drivers going to be paid for anyway (minimum shift length) so may as well run on a marginal cost basis. Also, especially with Sundays, what may have been non-commercial a few years may now wipe its face given the growth in Sunday shopping.

For example, when Somerset CC cut their subsidies for Sunday and evening services a few years ago, First continued on a "use it or lose it" basis. Some Sunday services around Wells and Taunton continue to this day. Others like Wells to Yeovil just didn't pay and then went. Same with some of the evening stuff though they will continue to 2000/2100hrs.

Arguably, you shouldn't marginally cost services but sometimes operators will do so as part of a holistic approach
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Old 15th March 2016, 19:22   #8
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Well, I'd reign in some of your suspicion. You have some journeys that are clearly not sustainable but bus companies will register them commercially in order to either ensure other commercial journeys aren't undermined (a laudable holistic vision) or they may decide that a drivers going to be paid for anyway (minimum shift length) so may as well run on a marginal cost basis. Also, especially with Sundays, what may have been non-commercial a few years may now wipe its face given the growth in Sunday shopping.

For example, when Somerset CC cut their subsidies for Sunday and evening services a few years ago, First continued on a "use it or lose it" basis. Some Sunday services around Wells and Taunton continue to this day. Others like Wells to Yeovil just didn't pay and then went. Same with some of the evening stuff though they will continue to 2000/2100hrs.

Arguably, you shouldn't marginally cost services but sometimes operators will do so as part of a holistic approach
I agree very much with all that. I'd also introduce another possible reason why an operator might at least try to make some of those journeys profitable, in the short term at least. Most operators will want to be favourably viewed by the councils in their area so that when, for instance, a tender is being made for a subsidised service and two competing firms make much the same bid, kudos might be given to the company which is taking the financial risk and keeping a service going which otherwise would have disappeared.
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Old 15th March 2016, 19:27   #9
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a car hardly fits down that road past Cow Ark, let alone a bus.
Are you aware that the number 10 bus actually makes that journey and the bus is certainly wider than our Range Rover.
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Old 15th March 2016, 19:48   #10
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Are you aware that the number 10 bus actually makes that journey and the bus is certainly wider than our Range Rover.
I know that road well, but didn't realise it ran that way. I assumed it was out-and-back through Newton and Slaidburn.
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Old 15th March 2016, 20:46   #11
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A lot of the tendered work that will be commercial is on a "use it or lose it" basis as well - the operators are trying to help LCC out, but there's only so much you can do if people don't use the services.
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Old 15th March 2016, 22:48   #12
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Basically, the ball is now in the court of the people of Lancashire, to use these services. Ironically, the public will be very well aware of them now, given the free publicity given to them by the media reports, so perhaps folk will be tempted to try them.
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Old 16th March 2016, 07:42   #13
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I know that road well, but didn't realise it ran that way. I assumed it was out-and-back through Newton and Slaidburn.
The number 10 circular is quite a scenic route, as follows:-
Clitheroe
Bashall Eaves
Cow Ark
Whitewell
Dunsop Bridge
Slaidburn
Newton
Waddington
Clitheroe
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Old 16th March 2016, 11:38   #14
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the real pain as I see it is that the Sunday and evening "touristy" services have gone: no more bus rides out to Kirkby Lonsdale or Silverdale or Glasson for a beer and walks, no more evenings in the fleshpots of Blackpool (as the evening 42 has gone}.
I'm sure those "scenic" routes just needed better advertising as "country pubs and walks" routes to keep the services going in the summer, at least.

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Old 16th March 2016, 11:56   #15
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Two interesting new registrations as a result of LCC cuts I assume:


PC0001777/146 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Finish Point: Skipton Bus Station
Via: Gisburn
Service Number: 180
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday


PC0001777/147 - PRESTON BUS LTD, 221 DEEPDALE ROAD, PRESTON, PR1 6NY
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Preston Bus Station
Finish Point: Clitheroe Interchange
Via: Whalley
Service Number: 280
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 04-APR-2016
Other Details: Monday to Sunday
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