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Old 1st August 2016, 19:52   #31
THarris123
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Ooh and Marshalls are horrible too. That's my most hated bus actually. Second to that ALX200. ALX300 is fairly low down the like list too.
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Old 1st August 2016, 20:08   #32
Statto
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Just to mention, i hate the Wright Cadet DAF/VDL SB120 that low engine drone when cruising hurts the ears.
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Old 1st August 2016, 20:32   #33
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Any version of the Trident.
Some are ok, some are awful.

Driver friends dislike the T reg ones, but love the 02 plate ones down here.

Passenger wise the streetlites rattle loads and have a poor ride.

The Mercedes Vario gets my vote, thank you all for DDA.
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Old 1st August 2016, 20:40   #34
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Just to mention, i hate the Wright Cadet DAF/VDL SB120 that low engine drone when cruising hurts the ears.
as a driver I hate driving any DAF... they have the strange idea that if you want to see the speedo then you should sit with the steering wheel and seat in the most uncomfortable position you can find... of course you CAN get the seat and wheel comfy for you... but then risk getting a speeding ticket...


as for Merc engined Solo's... they're not nicknamed So Slows for nothing! I remember working in Milton Keynes... the only safe way of doing an "estate hop" across the main grid roads was to turn left, up to the next roundabout... once round the roundabout and left again... to try to cross the grid road was inviting an accident to happen... I wouldn't measure their power in horses... more like hamsters!
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Old 1st August 2016, 20:45   #35
bungle965
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My own impressions on types of buses have are/have been on the market


Mercedes Benz Citaro
First Manchester's fleet of Citaro, are depleting massively now, various problems with them now mean that when one breaks down with a major fault it is game over for it, They are not the drivers favorite either for reasons which I will explain in a few lines further down. The engine noise is one of the best, however that is where the advantages stop.
They are very rattly, almost to the extent of some of the 'finest' ADL products. In addition to that they also seem to have a habit of setting on fire every now and again.

However the newer modes that Mercedes have brought out do look to be better on the outside, however as I have not been able to travel on them yet I cannot pass judgment. Perhaps some fellow forum members would be able to advise their opinions on the newer models.

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Enviro 200s. The number of rattles on most vehicles is simply unbearable.
I have to agree on that the Enviro 200, the rattles that they made was horrendous. I find that ADL products vary massively and I am unsure why. Perhaps it is which factory the bus was built at defines how good quality the bus is. Or whether the company bought it for a cheap price/ in bulk and as so, less care was given to the final product.

However the Enviro 200 MMC models defiantly seem better, less rattles and feel much smoother than the old models.

The Enviro 400s are very much the same story they can be completely hit and miss. Some are poor build quality while others tend to be not that bad at all. However things start to get interesting when starting to mess around with the engine manufacturer and. Personally I have found that the Scania is one of the mainly because of the engine sound but also in the way of the normal passengers I have found that they have a smoother engine and gear change than the normal Cummins engine. The vast majority of the Scania engine's are from the Stagecoach Gold fleet. When they buy a batch of Enviro 400 for the Gold route they always buy the Scania engine coupled to the Enviro 400 body rather than the Cummins alternative. Perhaps that says everything!
The worst of the engine types was by far the MAN engined ones in reliability terms, Stagecoach Manchester have around 20 I believe and they seem to spend more time of the road than they do actually on them! To say that they are not very reliable would be a bit of a understatement! However they do sound very different which is a good thing as it makes a change from the land of Cummins engine's!
In terms of rating them it is very hard to pick a place for them, I am sure that many forum members would just put them in near enough last place. However I would probably put them in the lower section on the table defiantly not as bad as Wrightbus, but not better than the likes of Volvo.

Optare
This company is changing rapidly in my opinion, gone are the days of the horrible noisy Solo's (interestingly enough though and a complete change from ADL I found that (again IMO) the Cummins engine products were far more superior both being quieter and smoother) instead they are starting to produce a much better product's, a perfect example of this would be in Transdev land. The Solo's and Versa seem to be very much ideal for the work that they are doing. Of course having a range topping extras on them help. But the dark days of the old Optare I believe is definatly behind them. I hope them the best and hope that their Metrodecker gets a foot on the market, as it seems to be passing from company to company without any orders for them so far!

Volvo
Volvo are in my opinion one of the best out there, they might not be the cheapest out there but they tend to be one of the most reliable, and one of the better build quality available, however the early single decker Eclipse models are a bit... dodgy. This is where I believe Wrightbus was at its peak making bodies for Volvo at that time they made good quality bodywork as evident on the Wright Eclipse Gemini. However in recent times they seem to have fallen out of haver with many operators with their reluctancy to shed weight on their buses, as fuel economy has become a big deal to many operators. I was pleased however that First chose Volvo for their recent Vantage Guided Busway contract. Also it should be interesting when the unconfirmed but highly likely move for Transdev to get some of the electric signle deckers that have been up until now confined to Sweden. Perhaps this will be a new step in the right direction for Volvo, I for one certainly will be happy to see them go from strength to strength.
It seems that also MCV is becoming a popular alternative to Wrightbus, I have not tried out their EvoSeti however I would defiantly to get a trip on it to see first hand how they are compared to the more wide known Wrightbus.

Wrightbus
I have saved the worst for last, the Streetlites are one of the worst buses I have ever tried. The fact that this sort of bus should come from such a reputable company is even more shocking. The list of faults is endless so the less said about them the better. The Streetdecks also have been having mixed opinions however until I get a proper ride on them I shall remain impartial. The less I write about these buses the better!
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Old 1st August 2016, 21:02   #36
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First up, that's quite a good post there samgeorge965!

For me, as I've only really been into the bus scene for the past 8 years or so since our Bristol VRs were retired, I don't have a much to say / post. However...

And note - a lot of this will also come down to operator specs as well - such as Fansia seats with no padding (the just moqutte and plastic!) or the strange and fairly awful ones First Specced on a lot of their vehicles around 2000.

The ADL Enviro 200. Unfortunately my local town is part of the Stagecoach Empire, and as a result we have a lot of them. Can I be complimentary about them? No, not really. What is noticeable is that the more recent builds (08/12) seem to be suffering worst off compared to the earlier batches we have around here (07) with some of the 12 plate vehicles either gaining sluggish tendencies or producing some very odd noises. In fact, the 06 Plate ADL Built Pointer 2s seem to be fairing better than it's Enviro brothers - leading to more I think than expected remaining around here. They shake, rattle, ride isn't particularly great. They're functional, but that's it. And built to a price.

Unfortunately Optare / East Lancs & Alexander doesn't score highly on my list either!
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Old 1st August 2016, 21:16   #37
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Personally for me, it has to be the pacer
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Old 1st August 2016, 21:27   #38
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Personally for me, it has to be the pacer
I see what you did there
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Old 1st August 2016, 21:32   #39
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Boris bus
You'll get mail! By the way, did you know you're going to get them not far from you next February, when routes EL1/2/3 are converted to the type?
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Old 1st August 2016, 21:45   #40
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Can we please exclude the NB4L/Boris Bus from this? We'll only end up with handwringing and the usual statements!! Plus accusations of hijacking and political bias!!

As for other types, another Blunder Bus was the Optare Vecta. Now, they looked OK to most folks, were good to travel on and drivers liked to drive them. So why hate them?

Well, that's all very good but with such a massively unreliable vehicle, it failed in turning up when you wanted them! So bad that most operators got rid as soon as possible! Trent donated some of theirs to the Boxing Day Tsunami relief effort when only 10 years old.

Arriva NE had a fleet that was augmented by others from other Arriva fleets (new to Crosville Wales and Stevenson's) - some were parked up redundant at 7/8 years old to be depreciated to zero whilst others had to be re-engineered to have Cummins power plants rather than MANs. And that's aside from the legendary issues with electrics and a poor design where spray from the rear wheels affected the radiator and so caused overheating!

All that AND they were 1.5 times more expensive than a Pointer Dart to buy!!
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Old 2nd August 2016, 07:06   #41
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From my prospective it has to be the Leyland national Mk1. All the weight on the back. try stopping one on a wet road. Noisy as hell also with the 510 fixed head rattle box engine. 2nd worst a Bristol LH. Brakes could never be balanced so always grabbing to one side. rattle like hell. Bounced around the road. Semi automatic ones used to lurch forward when placed into gear. i could go on .......
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Old 2nd August 2016, 07:41   #42
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The new Routemaster, horrible looking buses in my opinion.
I agree they are ugly, but I would nominate the old London Daimler DMS / DM / D class as being the ugliest ever - they tried to emulate the front end appearance of the Trolleybus, but failed dismally in the attempt...
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Old 2nd August 2016, 07:44   #43
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Another vote for the new Routemaster. Horrible buses. Tiny windows and crap ventilation, what's not to like?!

Also, whilst they aren't buses, any coach from the 1980s / 1990s / early 2000s with sealed windows and completely ineffective ventilation systems. A recipe for travel sickness if ever there was one!
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Old 2nd August 2016, 07:44   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samgeorge965 View Post
My own impressions on types of buses have are/have been on the market


Mercedes Benz Citaro
First Manchester's fleet of Citaro, are depleting massively now, various problems with them now mean that when one breaks down with a major fault it is game over for it, They are not the drivers favorite either for reasons which I will explain in a few lines further down. The engine noise is one of the best, however that is where the advantages stop.
They are very rattly, almost to the extent of some of the 'finest' ADL products. In addition to that they also seem to have a habit of setting on fire every now and again.
Isn't this a common problem amongst Citaros?
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Old 2nd August 2016, 07:56   #45
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Early E200s with the urban 90 seats
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