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Old 27th December 2016, 23:09   #16
RichmondCommu
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It is a single track at Stocksbridge?
Yes it is.
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:13   #17
Timrud
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The line will need expanding - it is a real shame this has never been invested in.
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:19   #18
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The line will need expanding - it is a real shame this has never been invested in.
It doesn't need expanding. It's very pie in the sky. Alternative transport methods exist.

However, the Stocksbridge branch joins a double-tracked mainline, so the single line isn't a major constraint. It would only ever need one DMU on the single track section at any one time long as paths are kept for the occasional steel train. All you'd need to do is build a single platform and a waiting shelter on one of the existing sidings at the end of the line. The hardest part would be finding a spare DMU. I even think TATA steel would be happy to allow it to run. I'm not sure what the speed limits are on the line and if there are any spare paths/capacity into Sheffield though.

In fact there has been a movement to reopen this railway to passenger traffic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Valley_Railway

Last edited by Iskra; 27th December 2016 at 23:27.
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:23   #19
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What rationale was there for the exclusion of these lines? I can understand why narrow gauge lines such as the Ffestiniog and Talyllyn would be overlooked, but there are many names in Bevan Price's list that I'm unfamiliar with. (Would some have been separate railways, unconnected to the rest of the network?)
The Easingwold & North Sunderland were both branches off ECML. They, and the others, were probably so small that they were not worth nationalising - and maybe considered financial liabilities.

I assume that all the standard guage lines had connections to the national network. Those without passenger services would be effectively industrial lines, but originally created by independent companies, rather than owned directly by industrial companies.

In addition to lines operated by the NCB, there were some large systems operated by ironstone mining companies, steelworks, and other industries. (See the books by Eric Tonks for more about ironstone rail systems (mainly) in the East Midlands; the Industrial Railway Society has published books about other systems.)

Most of the industrial railways had very basic (or no) signalling, with track unsuitable for main line locos. Those that were nationalised (NCB, steel industry, etc.) were best kept separate from BR - indeed some would have been built on privately owned land, and not required the Acts of Parliament necessary to build a "public" railway.
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:39   #20
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I read with interest that the Talyllyn Railway was never nationalised - it effectively passed directly from its original private operator to its current one in 1957.
The Talyllyn actually passed from private ownership to the preservation society in 1951.

There's a suggestion it escaped nationalisation in 1948 'as officialdom thought it too run-down, and the level of traffic too low, to be worth taking over.'

Also in North Wales, the Corris Railway (which closed during 1948) and the Welshpool & Llanfair were both nationalised - but the difference was by that time they were both part of the Great Western Railway.

I believe the Festiniog escaped nationalisation because it had ceased operating in 1946, although the company was still in existence - as was the case with the narrow gauge Southwold Railway in East Anglia, but that had ceased operating in 1929.

Last edited by Merthyr Imp; 27th December 2016 at 23:43.
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:43   #21
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Originally Posted by Iskra View Post
It doesn't need expanding. It's very pie in the sky. Alternative transport methods exist.

However, the Stocksbridge branch joins a double-tracked mainline, so the single line isn't a major constraint. It would only ever need one DMU on the single track section at any one time long as paths are kept for the occasional steel train. All you'd need to do is build a single platform and a waiting shelter on one of the existing sidings at the end of the line. The hardest part would be finding a spare DMU. I even think TATA steel would be happy to allow it to run. I'm not sure what the speed limits are on the line and if there are any spare paths/capacity into Sheffield though.

In fact there has been a movement to reopen this railway to passenger traffic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Valley_Railway
Thanks for the info - interesting! Where does it meet the mainline?
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Old 27th December 2016, 23:54   #22
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Thanks for the info - interesting! Where does it meet the mainline?
A place called Woodburn Junction, just North of Sheffield station in an area called Park Hill. Also, I've just seen, there are a number of passing loops on the line too.
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Old 28th December 2016, 00:11   #23
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Add Penrhyn Railway, Padarn Railway.

Fairbourne Railway

Technically a Tramway but it did call itself a railway Llandudno & Colwyn Bay Electric Railway.

Welsh Highland Railway though track had been removed from most of the route during WWII was still in existence.
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Old 28th December 2016, 00:21   #24
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Thanks everyone!

Were there any tramways in the 1950s and later that were operated privately rather than municipally?
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Old 28th December 2016, 00:22   #25
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A place called Woodburn Junction, just North of Sheffield station in an area called Park Hill. Also, I've just seen, there are a number of passing loops on the line too.
I'm amazed that they have survived given out little traffic there must be.
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Old 28th December 2016, 01:50   #26
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My guess is that the Fairbourne, the Ravenglass & Eskdale and the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch (despite the length of the latter two) would have been classed as a miniature railways on a par with seaside pleasure lines and excluded from nationalisation for that reason.

Regarding tramways, the Swansea & Mumbles Railway was operated by very large tramcars and remained in private hands until closure in 1960.
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:30   #27
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The Great Northern Railway (Ireland) was an interesting example of a line that escaped nationalisation in 1948; as it had also avoided Grouping in 1923 it could claim to have been the last of the major pre-Grouping railways.
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:35   #28
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The Liverpool Overhead was the most unlikely, given that the adjacent Mersey Railway from Liverpool to Birkenhead, which was nationalised, was also electric and also fully independent. The LOR closed in 1957 mainly because significant repairs were needed to the structure which the shareholders could not afford - it basically broke even on running costs against fare income. Such would not have been an issue for the nationalised system.

The Derwent Valley, a country freight line north of York, was a curious survivor as they had given up their own locomotives long before nationalisation, and hired them and crews daily from the main system (I believe they provided their own guard). It eventually closed in sections to 1980, principally because, like the LOR, it needed major renewals which the operating income didn't justify - most of the rails had never been replaced from when it was built. Like many independent railway companies (not least the Metropolitan) it ended up making more from property development and non-rail activities than anything on the rail side.

I believe the last privately-operated tramway was the Manx Electric, which was nationalised by the IOM government in 1957, again due to running out of free money for needed repairs. It just pipped by a few months the Llandudno and Colwyn Bay tramway, which merely closed down.

The County Donegal and the Lough Swilly both remained independent because of the difficulties of nationalising something operated in two countries. Both closed down at the end of the 1950s, but whereas the CDJR continued to run a bus service for a while with vehicles hired from the Irish state bus company CIE, the Lough Swilly, still calling themselves a railway officially, ran it's own independent bus services throughout Donegal (Ireland), although headquartered in Londonderry (UK) until 2014, being made bankrupt just two years ago by the (UK) government tax authorities because they had not paid their income tax monies over. I presume that is the last UK independent railway company, although the last two extensions of the DLR in London have been built and operated by independent companies, being however operationally integrated with the main system. The Mudchute to Lewisham section is still privately owned and maintained. The same can be said about the Heathrow Express line and operation beyond Hayes.

Last edited by Taunton; 28th December 2016 at 12:51.
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:47   #29
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The Banbury - Wroxton ironstone railway. It connected with the main GW line just north of Banbury North Junction (that's the GC line to Woodford). The "Main Line" was double tracked, but traffic drove on the right! Still operational in the 60s I remember.
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Old 28th December 2016, 13:04   #30
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The Isle of Man Railway, was nationalised after a fashion in the late sixties early seventies. When the then management ran out of money to operate the whole system. So the Manx Government stepped in. All public transport on the Island is "State" run bar the Grundle Glen Line and the Douglas Horse Drawn Tram line along the "Prom". Having said that the current I.M.R. services run basicly March-October as per most Heritage lines on the UK mainland, so it's akin to the N.R.M. at York but with it's own running line.
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