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Old 4th January 2017, 16:38   #16
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If is a Sunday I really would be looking to mark something up with what's hauled as there probably isn't enough to just jump around on, and you'll know when the same locos are coming back from earlier. Particularly if there is just a handful on 21s - but keep an eye on the board for any EXT reliefs that get thrown out, although January probably isn't the most likely time...

Less engines should make it less manic and able to keep a clearer eye on what's about. If it's a couple of years since you last went a fair few 28s on the Amsterdam should be fresh as well, they've turned a few over between the pools.
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Old 4th January 2017, 21:39   #17
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If is a Sunday I really would be looking to mark something up with what's hauled as there probably isn't enough to just jump around on, and you'll know when the same locos are coming back from earlier. Particularly if there is just a handful on 21s - but keep an eye on the board for any EXT reliefs that get thrown out, although January probably isn't the most likely time...

Less engines should make it less manic and able to keep a clearer eye on what's about. If it's a couple of years since you last went a fair few 28s on the Amsterdam should be fresh as well, they've turned a few over between the pools.
Not a bad shout, I'll try to get just that done soon.

Can the 28s be scored? I assumed they were strictly speaking international trains and not bashable on leaps Midi to Nord.

317666: Cheers, I'll have to have an explore and let you know if there's any decent takeaways.
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Old 4th January 2017, 21:48   #18
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28s are hauling international trains indeed but these can be used for domestic journeys within Belgium and SNCB tickets like Brussels to Antwerp are valid on them.

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Old 4th January 2017, 21:52   #19
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28s are hauling international trains indeed but these can be used for domestic journeys within Belgium and SNCB tickets like Brussels to Antwerp are valid on them.

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Good to know, many thanks!
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Old 5th January 2017, 21:21   #20
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Brilliant thread. I am thinking of a day trip in Feb 17 on the FIP card special fare with E* for a bit of Belgian bashing and this info is extremely helpful.
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Old 15th January 2017, 02:03   #21
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Hi Tech,

I read your Benelux 2013 thread with great interest. Belgium is indeed good fun for bashing, beer, chocolate and frites! Hoping to get back over myself soon.

About takeaways and the like around Brussel, there I can help you. At Zuid you have a Carrefour Express to stock up on booze and munchies just by the main concourse, plenty of Belgian beers to stock up on here before you head back (I'm assuming your taking E*?) and much cheaper than from any of the tourist shops in the centrum.
I can vouch for Quick, I quite enjoyed their stuff in Luxembourg and it beets macci D's / Burger King any day. Try their shakes!
Also be sure to visit "Friterie Tabora" on Taborastraat in de Centrum! By far the best frites in Brussel, try the mafia sauce!!

For "interesting" drinking establishments around Noord, take a walk out onto Aarschotstraat on the east side of the station but keep your wits about you! Its the heard of the RLD and not all of the "bars" there are actually bone-fide bars!! Do not expect to be served a drink in any of these places though!
Do check out "Den Bureau" though for a break between trains, come out the station onto Aarschotstraat and bear right over the road, it has saltire flags on the blue canopy and of course is Scottish themed, cant miss it. They have Juplier (love that stuff too and kriekbier!) and its legit!
You also have "Atlas" kebab shop right next door for some grub to jump back on the trains with.

I can confirm that the 28's on the BeNeLuxtrein can be bashed no problem from Zuid - Noord, at least it could be with FIP coupons anyway.

Not all of the Brussel - Luxembourg's are AM96 "rubber rings", there are a few booked for loco + double deck stock and according to BeLux Trains there is an out and back Sunday working with an interesting composition of both double deck and Eurofima stock, but a rubber ring showed up when I went for it in the summer

Anyway, have a great trip and look forward to reading the next report!
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When new M7 stock will be in revenue service, it will be the end for HLE 21 & 27, but also for M4 and I6 carriages. And in the mean time we will probably see the end of the trains hauled by HLE 13, once HLE 18/19 are approved by CFL. And certainly too the end of the last twin EMUs.

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Bonsoir / Goedenavond Marc

Sad to hear that, I love the NMBS/SNCB Voiture standard européenne I6 / I10. I had much fun riding them on the EuroCity Iris / Vauban (EC/EX/IC 90/91/96/97) before they were deleted last April.
Am I correct in thinking that they are maintained in Ooostende?
I know from Belux trains that I6 cars are still used on the Liers - Luxembourg via Gouvy and a single I10 is usually marshalled in the Ooostende - Eupen rakes behind the locomotive but would you happen to know if they have any other regular work?
And would you know where the I10 cars with the compartments can be found now, if indeed they still have any booked work? Le Vauban et Iris were usually mainly made up of these cars.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 15th January 2017, 07:58   #22
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Just be careful. There are many armed police on Zuid, Centraal and Noord due to the ongoing problems that happened there. I was in Brussels last October and they were everywhere.
Anyway of course there are loads and loads of hauled trains. 13s on the Lux services, 21s, 27s and of course the many 18s & 19s some of which are top and tailed to some degree. Particularly the ones that go to Knokke/Blankenberge and split en-route.
And yes the 28s on the Amsterdam service. One point to note here though is I believe that the line is closed to Amsterdam when you are there, so possibly not as many 28s out as you may normally get.
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Old 15th January 2017, 09:29   #23
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Please Explain: That was incredibly helpful so my many thanks! I'll re-read your post again after coffee, but I will be sure to take up your advice on the beer sourcing and food. Quik I'm sure I visited in 2013 but not sure. I do recall it being nice though!
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Old 16th January 2017, 07:42   #24
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Originally Posted by Please Explain View Post
Sad to hear that, I love the NMBS/SNCB Voiture standard européenne I6 / I10. I had much fun riding them on the EuroCity Iris / Vauban (EC/EX/IC 90/91/96/97) before they were deleted last April.
Am I correct in thinking that they are maintained in Ooostende?
I know from Belux trains that I6 cars are still used on the Liers - Luxembourg via Gouvy and a single I10 is usually marshalled in the Ooostende - Eupen rakes behind the locomotive but would you happen to know if they have any other regular work?
And would you know where the I10 cars with the compartments can be found now, if indeed they still have any booked work? Le Vauban et Iris were usually mainly made up of these cars.

Thanks in advance.
Looks like there is some confusion in the above, so here is the full story :

I6 cars are genuine "Voiture Standard Européenne", also known as "UIC Type Z", built in 1977 for 6 European rail companies. They are compartimented and air conditioned. SNCB bought 80 of them, 60 second class and 20 first class.

They were an immediate success, which also quickly revealed their most important problem : capacity.
Indeed, those cars only seat 54 people in first class and 66 in second.

So a second batch of cars was ordered, which is not VSE/UCI Type Z anymore, because of the differences. They still use the same car body, but lack the under floor protections of the I6, making them less aesthetically pleasant.
And they are not compartimented anymore, but have an open plan seating, with 4 seats abreast instead of 3 in second class, thus offering 88 seats instead of 66.

They are numbered I10 (I7 to I9 were cancelled projects) and came in two variants : 35 air conditioned 2nd class coaches to supplement the I6 ; and 60 non airco, 45 2nd class and 15 first, for short international trains like Liège-Luxembourg.
You can tell the difference between airco and non airco cars by looking at the windows: the non airco ones have a small opening section at the top.

I6 and airco I10 partly lost their mission when TGV was introduced on Paris-Brussels. Some I10 were overhauled to allow 200 km/h operation on the Oostende-Eupen trains. 4 airco ones were transformed into restaurants and bar-dancing cars. The remaining ones are used on Liège-Luxembourg and on fast rush-hour trains.

15 out of the 60 I6B cars were transformed into couchette cars, used today on special trains only since SNCB abandoned all night traffic.

Today, I6 cars are 40 years old, and because of their limited capacity, somewhat felt in disgrace by the SNCB management. They could continue to be used provided they get an overhaul, but that will not happen, so they will be removed from service and scrapped as soon as they reach their overhaul limit.

I10 cars on the other hand are still going strong and keep their regular overhaul, as they offer a correct capacity for the belgian rail context. So the airco ones will continue to supplement the I11 stock and the non airco ones will remain on the Liege-Luxembourg and rush hour trains.
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Old 17th January 2017, 01:18   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HA25322 View Post
Just be careful. There are many armed police on Zuid, Centraal and Noord due to the ongoing problems that happened there. I was in Brussels last October and they were everywhere.
Anyway of course there are loads and loads of hauled trains. 13s on the Lux services, 21s, 27s and of course the many 18s & 19s some of which are top and tailed to some degree. Particularly the ones that go to Knokke/Blankenberge and split en-route.
And yes the 28s on the Amsterdam service. One point to note here though is I believe that the line is closed to Amsterdam when you are there, so possibly not as many 28s out as you may normally get.
I've passed through so many times in the past year or so and taken plenty of pictures and not once have I had any hassle from them or the soldiers. They don't seem to have scared away any of the fools who like to prey on arriving the tourists with their "speak English?!" nonsense either!
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Please Explain: That was incredibly helpful so my many thanks! I'll re-read your post again after coffee, but I will be sure to take up your advice on the beer sourcing and food. Quik I'm sure I visited in 2013 but not sure. I do recall it being nice though!
No problem, be sure to write up another trip report this time. I do enjoy reading about your adventures on the rails!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Looks like there is some confusion in the above, so here is the full story :

I6 cars are genuine "Voiture Standard Européenne", also known as "UIC Type Z", built in 1977 for 6 European rail companies. They are compartimented and air conditioned. SNCB bought 80 of them, 60 second class and 20 first class.

They were an immediate success, which also quickly revealed their most important problem : capacity.
Indeed, those cars only seat 54 people in first class and 66 in second.

So a second batch of cars was ordered, which is not VSE/UCI Type Z anymore, because of the differences. They still use the same car body, but lack the under floor protections of the I6, making them less aesthetically pleasant.
And they are not compartimented anymore, but have an open plan seating, with 4 seats abreast instead of 3 in second class, thus offering 88 seats instead of 66.

They are numbered I10 (I7 to I9 were cancelled projects) and came in two variants : 35 air conditioned 2nd class coaches to supplement the I6 ; and 60 non airco, 45 2nd class and 15 first, for short international trains like Liège-Luxembourg.
You can tell the difference between airco and non airco cars by looking at the windows: the non airco ones have a small opening section at the top.

I6 and airco I10 partly lost their mission when TGV was introduced on Paris-Brussels. Some I10 were overhauled to allow 200 km/h operation on the Oostende-Eupen trains. 4 airco ones were transformed into restaurants and bar-dancing cars. The remaining ones are used on Liège-Luxembourg and on fast rush-hour trains.

15 out of the 60 I6B cars were transformed into couchette cars, used today on special trains only since SNCB abandoned all night traffic.

Today, I6 cars are 40 years old, and because of their limited capacity, somewhat felt in disgrace by the SNCB management. They could continue to be used provided they get an overhaul, but that will not happen, so they will be removed from service and scrapped as soon as they reach their overhaul limit.

I10 cars on the other hand are still going strong and keep their regular overhaul, as they offer a correct capacity for the belgian rail context. So the airco ones will continue to supplement the I11 stock and the non airco ones will remain on the Liege-Luxembourg and rush hour trains.
Merci beaucoup Marc.

Very informative, it would seem I mistook the I6 for I10. I'm still getting to know your country and its rail network.
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Last edited by Please Explain; 17th January 2017 at 01:18. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 17th January 2017, 20:01   #26
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PleaseExplain: I will definitely have a trip report up by next week, Sunday's report will be up by Monday evening
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