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Old 2nd January 2017, 20:44   #1
fredk
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Default Sadiq Kahn cancels NB4L/New Routemaster contract with Wrightbus

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sadiq-khan-end
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Originally Posted by The Guardian
Sadiq Khan has dumped the so called “Boris bus” which was one of the key policies of his predecessor’s time as Mayor of London, it has been reported.

In July of last year, 300 London bus conductors were made redundant as part of plans to save 10m per year from the transport budget.

It is understood Mr Khan plans to focus on transport technology which will improve air quality, amid growing concerns over pollution in the capital city.
I'm not sure whether this was a good move by the new mayor. On one hand the new routemaster has an outdated and polluting diesel electric system, on the other hand it is a nice looking bus with comfortable lighting which is nice to see.
I do think that with the amount spent in developing the bus, it is a terrible time to pull out of the deal at this stage - all it means is taxpayers getting a worse deal. The whole economy of the new routemaster was about the bulk quantity that would bring down the initial development costs.
As for pollution, instead of going in and scrapping the entire bus design and platform, I think it is shortsighted of Khan to not have utilised this and worked with Wirghtbus to manufacture buses with new more efficient full battery power rather than diesel electric.
It seems like a huge waste to develop this product then drop it instead of working on it to be more efficient.

Last edited by fredk; 2nd January 2017 at 20:49.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 21:06   #2
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You dont keep a white elephant going to save grace, the bus cost to much money buy in the first place.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 21:20   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredk View Post
I do think that with the amount spent in developing the bus, it is a terrible time to pull out of the deal at this stage - all it means is taxpayers getting a worse deal. The whole economy of the new routemaster was about the bulk quantity that would bring down the initial development costs.
As for pollution, instead of going in and scrapping the entire bus design and platform, I think it is shortsighted of Khan to not have utilised this and worked with Wirghtbus to manufacture buses with new more efficient full battery power rather than diesel electric.
It seems like a huge waste to develop this product then drop it instead of working on it to be more efficient.
Basically you are making the Sunk Cost Fallacy.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 21:41   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredk View Post
I'm not sure whether this was a good move by the new mayor. On one hand the new routemaster has an outdated and polluting diesel electric system, on the other hand it is a nice looking bus with comfortable lighting which is nice to see.
I do think that with the amount spent in developing the bus, it is a terrible time to pull out of the deal at this stage - all it means is taxpayers getting a worse deal. The whole economy of the new routemaster was about the bulk quantity that would bring down the initial development costs.
As for pollution, instead of going in and scrapping the entire bus design and platform, I think it is shortsighted of Khan to not have utilised this and worked with Wirghtbus to manufacture buses with new more efficient full battery power rather than diesel electric.
It seems like a huge waste to develop this product then drop it instead of working on it to be more efficient.
This is just regurgitated news, no more were going to be ordered post-Boris.
The bus is really not all that good, more style over substance. Loads of Boris-hype covered up a number of deficiencies, but it has tested out a few new practices - and other new types of buses from other manufacturers have since incorporated some of the better bits.
The fresh interest is far more related to fully electric buses, some of which are now in service.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 21:56   #5
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They wouldn't be so bad if the back doors were kept open on them like the whole point of them was supposed to have been...
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Old 2nd January 2017, 22:03   #6
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All that Sadiq Khan has done is to not continue with the production of the NBfL after the present contract expires, which will be at some stage next year after the 1,000th bus has been produced. It was entirely predictable that this would be the case: Boris Johnson's actions in extending the contract for long after the period of his mayoralty were entirely political and imo should have been prevented. Khan has not, to my knowledge, indicated he will seek early withdrawal of these white elephants, unlike Johnson with the bendybus. So TfL is stuck with the purchase and deployment, knowing that the promises regarding fuel economy and emissions will never be realised, which in part contribute to the pollution readings on Oxford Street and the plans by TfL to reduce the number of buses traversing it.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 23:33   #7
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They wouldn't be so bad if the back doors were kept open on them like the whole point of them was supposed to have been...
Should never have had open rear entrance/exit. Everyone had got used to doored buses and then Boris has to insist on an open door - which necessitates employing an extra member of staff. Idiotic.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 23:41   #8
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Well I could cry at the waisted public money but celibrate at the fact we'll only have 1000 of them.

What I would like to know is how his targate of no deezol buses in London will work with a load of these heaps of junk puffing around?
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Old 2nd January 2017, 23:58   #9
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I have always liked the New Routemaster despite its numerous problems. I like the fact it is unique to London, I like the ambient interior, and the styling enhances London streets magnificently.

However, I acknowledge the fundamental problems which this bus has. I believe the issues stem from the way it was developed - Thomas Heatherwick is a product designer who is incredible at what he does, but he is not a vehicle designer. Perhaps it was Wrightbus who should have addressed the issues and failed. Many aspects are better than off the shelf double deckers (interior, styling, lighting) but some are worse (incredibly small seats with poor legroom and back support, diesel electric system running mostly on diesel mode, the addition of a middle door, 2 staircases when only 1 is needed, poor air conditioning, and more).

Overall the NB4L pushed the boundaries for bus manufacturers and in their recent models design aspects have filtered through. It is very nice to see the high standard of recent double deckers from Alexander Dennis and Wrightbus.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 02:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindtraveler View Post
Well I could cry at the waisted public money but celibrate at the fact we'll only have 1000 of them.

What I would like to know is how his targate of no deezol buses in London will work with a load of these heaps of junk puffing around?
Target is likely to be for 2025 - by which time the new Routemasters would all have been sold on in any case. Five years from now, and they would all have been gone.

But they were essentially backward-looking - especially the third door. What they sadly failed to do was to re-think the urban bus for a post-diesel road environment. For most London routes that likely implies hydrogen fuel cell technology; but making that work will then imply a different form of double-decker bus.

For one thing, smaller windows (especially on the upper deck), to save weight.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 07:54   #11
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Was their anything to stop other bus companies ordering them? The have just chosen not to because they are not suitable for thier businesses?
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Old 3rd January 2017, 07:57   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredk View Post
I have always liked the New Routemaster despite its numerous problems. I like the fact it is unique to London, I like the ambient interior, and the styling enhances London streets magnificently.

However, I acknowledge the fundamental problems which this bus has. I believe the issues stem from the way it was developed - Thomas Heatherwick is a product designer who is incredible at what he does, but he is not a vehicle designer. Perhaps it was Wrightbus who should have addressed the issues and failed. Many aspects are better than off the shelf double deckers (interior, styling, lighting) but some are worse (incredibly small seats with poor legroom and back support, diesel electric system running mostly on diesel mode, the addition of a middle door, 2 staircases when only 1 is needed, poor air conditioning, and more).

Overall the NB4L pushed the boundaries for bus manufacturers and in their recent models design aspects have filtered through. It is very nice to see the high standard of recent double deckers from Alexander Dennis and Wrightbus.
Apart from the needless open platform requiring a 2nd crew member I particularly dislike the general drabness of the interior, the poor layout of, uncomfortable, seats and the lack of fresh air (only now being addressed, slowly).
Given that the ridership levels are increasing in the suburbs, they may well end up operating outside the central area in later years. It's extremely unlikely that many will see any further life outside the TfL area.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 08:12   #13
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Just imaging where we would be if Boris on a wave of populism allowed the introduction of a slam-door suburban train to allow boarding and alighting whenever the passenger's 'common sense' dictated.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 12:01   #14
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Just imaging where we would be if Boris on a wave of populism allowed the introduction of a slam-door suburban train to allow boarding and alighting whenever the passenger's 'common sense' dictated.
There would be quite a few fans on here I imagine!
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Old 3rd January 2017, 14:30   #15
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Was their anything to stop other bus companies ordering them? The have just chosen not to because they are not suitable for thier businesses?
Why would they - where is the significant benefit over more standard buses ?
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