RailUK Forums
RailUK Forums > Other Rail & Transport > Other Public Transport > Buses & Coaches


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 4th January 2017, 18:59   #31
Hophead
Member
 
Join Date: 5 Apr 2013
Posts: 596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busaholic View Post
I agree that it was a bit too strong to say they are 'unfit for purpose' but I was exaggerating in order to make a point. I don't believe there will be anything like a thousand in use in two years time, and probably none in five years time.
At the knock-down price they'll have to sell them for, Ensign or whoever may be able to shift a few, but most will probably end up stored just like the majority of the bendies.
But the Citaros weren't owned by TfL, so the mass withdrawal became a problem for the leasing companies (or were any directly owned by the operators?). Nevertheless, TfL will face another storm if they withdraw early hundreds of buses they actually own (but may also face criticism if they retain vehicles which are grossly inefficient).
Hophead is offline   Reply With Quote
Registered users do not see these banners - join today!
Old 4th January 2017, 19:02   #32
the101
Member
 
Join Date: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo View Post
Hybrid technology that doesn't work effectively so they're essentially diesel vehicles?
There is nothing wrong with the hybrid technology. Where it has come unstuck is that in a politically-motivated attempt by Boris's administration to prove that the New RMs are substantially more fuel efficient than other hybrids, the batteries have been misused through over-extended periods of engine-off operation. That and that alone is what has caused all of the well-publicised battery problems, but I would never expect a scurrilous excuse for a newspaper like The Guardian to have looked into it to that level of detail.
the101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 19:04   #33
507021
British Rail Class 507
Established Member
 
507021's Avatar
 
Join Date: 19 Feb 2015
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,577
Default

I agree, I don't see the point in having such a bespoke bus design that is expensive and also limited as to where it can operate after its time in London has come to an end. I genuinely don't see the point in having an expensive Rolls Royce Ghost (Wrightbus New Routemaster) when a much cheaper Ford Focus (Alexander Dennis Enviro400) will do the job just as well, if not better.
__________________
NO to DOO/DCO, keep the guard on the train!
ME stations needed: 17.
507021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 19:09   #34
Robertj21a
Established Member
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 2,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hophead View Post
But the Citaros weren't owned by TfL, so the mass withdrawal became a problem for the leasing companies (or were any directly owned by the operators?). Nevertheless, TfL will face another storm if they withdraw early hundreds of buses they actually own (but may also face criticism if they retain vehicles which are grossly inefficient).
At least Arriva owned all theirs.
Robertj21a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 19:15   #35
Busaholic
Established Member
 
Join Date: 7 Jun 2014
Posts: 4,907
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
In what way are they "not fit for purpose"? You can argue until the cows come home about whether you *like* them or not, but as buses they do the job reasonably well, particularly now opening windows (proper ones, too, not hoppers) have been fitted.
I was quite prepared to 'like' them, actually, in the sense of their design, original ability to hop on/off, etc, although I was never going to be convinced that the price was worth it or by the spurious reasons given by Boris J for their development. I still 'like' aspects of their look, particularly from the offside and back, but I was remarkably unimpressed by the claustrophic top deck atmosphere (and this was February, so heat didn't come into it) and, later, by the ridiculous downstairs seating arrangements and incredibly hard seats. The old expression 'fur coat and no knickers' came to mind. I was also unimpressed on that first day by the customer assistant attempting to stop me leaving the bus when it had been immobile in Piccadilly traffic for a good five minutes.

The mpg have consistently been way under what was claimed to be possible too, this information having to be dragged out of TfL by a Freedom of Information request in the first place, although a little later when Boris's notoriously gnat-like attention span had shifted to other things the info became more readily available.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertj21a View Post
At least Arriva owned all theirs.
First and Go-Ahead still have some on their books, I understand, so I would imagine very few, if any, were leased.

Last edited by Busaholic; 4th January 2017 at 19:15. Reason: Double post prevention system
Busaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 20:04   #36
the101
Member
 
Join Date: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busaholic View Post
First and Go-Ahead still have some on their books, I understand, so I would imagine very few, if any, were leased.


Most of them were leased, hence there being hundreds of them parked on various former airbases for years and Dawsonrentals seriously examining converting them into 40ft buses in a bid to get those it was lumbered with shifted.
the101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 20:38   #37
randyrippley
On Moderation
 
Join Date: 21 Feb 2016
Posts: 635
Default

how easily could they be re-engineered to remove the second staircase and the rear doors?
randyrippley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 21:06   #38
Busaholic
Established Member
 
Join Date: 7 Jun 2014
Posts: 4,907
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertj21a View Post

There will be next to no market for them outside TfL-land.
That could just be their saving (for a while).
Busaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 21:23   #39
WatcherZero
Established Member
 
Join Date: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 8,165
Default

Odds London will relax the 5 year age limit on buses so they can hang around the capital longer.
WatcherZero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 21:42   #40
Deerfold
Established Member
 
Deerfold's Avatar
 
Join Date: 26 Nov 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 8,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Odds London will relax the 5 year age limit on buses so they can hang around the capital longer.
What 5 year age limit? There's plenty of older buses in London.
Deerfold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 21:43   #41
6Gman
Established Member
 
Join Date: 1 May 2012
Posts: 2,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Odds London will relax the 5 year age limit on buses so they can hang around the capital longer.
What "5 year age limit on buses"?
6Gman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 21:58   #42
Busaholic
Established Member
 
Join Date: 7 Jun 2014
Posts: 4,907
Default

There are certainly 52 reg buses still in service in London.
Busaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 22:01   #43
Robertj21a
Established Member
 
Join Date: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 2,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Odds London will relax the 5 year age limit on buses so they can hang around the capital longer.
Tenders are usually for 5 years, with extensions to 7 years. That same bus is then usually used again for at least another 5 year tender.
Robertj21a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 22:47   #44
Peter Mugridge
Established Member
 
Peter Mugridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: 8 Apr 2010
Location: Epsom
Posts: 7,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertj21a View Post
There will be next to no market for them outside TfL-land.
There might be a market for the entire fleet in Rotherham...?
Peter Mugridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2017, 23:03   #45
carlberry
Member
 
Join Date: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hophead View Post
But the Citaros weren't owned by TfL, so the mass withdrawal became a problem for the leasing companies (or were any directly owned by the operators?). Nevertheless, TfL will face another storm if they withdraw early hundreds of buses they actually own (but may also face criticism if they retain vehicles which are grossly inefficient).
Whilst the bendies became a problem for the leasing/operating companies this immediately became a problem for TfL as it was clear that anything slightly odd that went into London had to pay for itself before the next mayor came along and chucked the toys out of the pram again. hence why all the Borisbuses are owned by TfL (and in a fairer society should have been recharged to Boris!).
carlberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 22:09.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright © 2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© RailUK Forums 2005 - 2017