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Old 4th January 2017, 06:34   #16
34D
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In some areas numbers go back to tram days. Doubtless there's been a thread on here at some point that has invited suggestions for the longest established service.

Some operators use words for the route number like the ridiculous 'Mickleover blue' or 'cityzap' as used by Trent and Transdev.
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Old 4th January 2017, 11:58   #17
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Most numbers were started by Municipals/Corporations which started from 1 upwards, normally 1 to 99, what became National Bus Company mostly 100 plus with some numbers that had prefix letters, although some NBC numbers were less than 100.

the PTE era, all PTEs inherited quite a few corporation transport companies with duplicated numbers so most PTEs developed a number scheme from 1 to above 500, Merseyside was the only area that still had local numbers only Arriva renumbering most routes after they brought MTL. SELNEC/GMPTE inherited about 8 corporations so devised a scheme from 1 to 6xx depending where the bus operated.

Crosville was one that started with letters, then as the network grew letters became numbers normally 100 plus, however in 1959 Crosville decided to renumber all there network with prefix letter instead so
Axx was North Wales Coast
Bxx Flintshire
Cxx Chester
Dxx Wrexham
Exx East Cheshire
Fxx Wirral
Gxx Wrexham Works or School services
Hxx Liverpool & Halton
Jxx some Halton joint services
Kxx Crewe, Nantwich
Lxx Limited Stop
Mxx Rhyl, Llandudno, Conwy
Nxx Bangor, Anglesey
Rxx Pwllheli, Porthmadog
Sxx Aberystwyth, Barnmouth
Txx Runcorn Busway
In 1979 journeys wholly in the Wirral area which were Fxx series were renumbered between 72 & 89.
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Old 4th January 2017, 19:03   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statto View Post
Crosville was one that started with letters, then as the network grew letters became numbers normally 100 plus, however in 1959 Crosville decided to renumber all there network with prefix letter instead so
Axx was North Wales Coast
Bxx Flintshire
Cxx Chester
Dxx Wrexham
Exx East Cheshire
Fxx Wirral
Gxx Wrexham Works or School services
Hxx Liverpool & Halton
Jxx some Halton joint services
Kxx Crewe, Nantwich
Lxx Limited Stop
Mxx Rhyl, Llandudno, Conwy
Nxx Bangor, Anglesey
Rxx Pwllheli, Porthmadog
Sxx Aberystwyth, Barnmouth
Txx Runcorn Busway
In 1979 journeys wholly in the Wirral area which were Fxx series were renumbered between 72 & 89.
Thanks for that summary. I only ever used to encounter Crosville in the pages of Buses 30-odd years ago and considered the route numbering utterly unfathomable.
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Old 4th January 2017, 20:39   #19
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Another operator who used a prefix letter was Midland General and equally seemed to be utterly unfathomable.

Harrogate & District did use a B prefix for services to the suburb of Bilton in the 1990s, marketed as Buzz around on Bilton Bee - B1 & B1A being clockwise and anti clockwise services around a dumbbell route in the suburb and now, with a slight variation, being route 2A in an anti clockwise direction only. The B2 was a short working along part of the dumbbell, and the B3 and B4 two further dumbbell routes serving separate parts of the suburb - now combined together as route 2B. B5 was an evening route around the suburb now abandoned in favour of the 2A while the B6 was one of those odd mopping up services taking a very staggered route that I think must have been funded by NYCC and was axed long ago. The B numbering was replaced by numbers in the 200s, while the rest of the towns services were numbered in the 100s - this arose from running the Knaresborough services through to Bilton, or Jennyfield which led to confusion as B1 or B1A was used solely on services towards Bilton only and all other journeys used the 1 or 2 of the Knaresborough service. The resolution was to number Knaresborough-Jennyfield (and return) service as 101 and 102 and those to and from Bilton as 201 and 202. Subsequent time keeping problem saw the through services axed and the Jennyfield service which had previously been service 7 becoming 103 and now 3 with the axing of the 100/200 numbers. The Knaresborough services remained as 101 and 102, with the 102 route in the Knaresborough suburbs being split into two separate routes 100 and 102. Today the Knaresborough services are 1A, 1B and 1C with short workings running as 1.

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Old 4th January 2017, 21:50   #20
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Originally Posted by M28361M View Post
I think in the deregulated era an operator can choose any number they like for a route, even if it could cause confusion. For example, Liverpool currently has two number 14s - not two rival operators competing on the same route, but two completely different services. They both serve Queen Square bus station in the city centre, so hopefully nobody gets on the wrong one by mistake!

On the other hand, the free-for-all in numbering does allow for some creativity: like the Hadrian's Wall bus link which is numbered AD122.
Chester is bad for duplicated route numbers - at one time I think there were three Route 4s, all of which ran along the same street in the city centre!

Even today a 1 can take you to Wrexham, or Liverpool, or Blacon!
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Old 4th January 2017, 22:49   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34D View Post
In some areas numbers go back to tram days. Doubtless there's been a thread on here at some point that has invited suggestions for the longest established service.

Some operators use words for the route number like the ridiculous 'Mickleover blue' or 'cityzap' as used by Trent and Transdev.
Weirdest named one is Transdev Lancashire 152 Preston-Burnley which is also known as Hotline, at least Red Express, Whichway, Mainline names make a bit of sense, Hotline makes no sense.
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Old 4th January 2017, 22:57   #22
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Although there was exceptions, Liverpool in the Corpy/PTE era had 2 different routes in the City Centre to Pier Head the numbers finished with C or D, C was routes via Church Street, D was Dale Street, one way systems & Road pedestrianisations interfered with that, & most D routes were withdrawn at D-Reg ones left mostly followed C routes through the City Centre

Originally, Liverpool allocated nos. 1 - 49 for tram services, and 50 upwards for motor bus services.

For the bus services, there was initially allocation blocks of numbers according to the areas served by the buses to/from the city centre.
For example, "5x" routes went towards the Bootle / Litherland / Seaforth areas.
"6x" Fazakerkey / Norris Green
"7x" Wavertee / Childwall / Huyton
"8x" Smithdown Road / Aigburth Road / Speke.

It was not totally simple, as "cross-city" buses used the same blocks of numbers. So, and which still exists in modified form, 61 was Aigburth Vale - Old Swan - Seaforth (in 1939, according to "Liverpool Transport" by JB Horne & Bruce Maund.

As trams were withdrawn, replacement bus routes sometimes used the same numbers. After the trams had gone, any new bus routes might use "vacancies" in the number series.
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Old 5th January 2017, 10:37   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statto View Post
Weirdest named one is Transdev Lancashire 152 Preston-Burnley which is also known as Hotline, at least Red Express, Whichway, Mainline names make a bit of sense, Hotline makes no sense.
Witchway makes more sense! Whichway just sounds lost.

I don't see how Hotline makes less sense than Mainline.
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:31   #24
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Hotline hasn't replaced the actual number, despite how eager the current management would be to do this.

It doesnt work scrapping the number Trent Barton style as in various situations the brand has to be abbreviated, so you end up with RA, TP, SKY, CC, IGO, IF etc used on departure screens, apps, journey planners etc.
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:48   #25
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I think that there is much history associated with individual bus route numbers, and passengers do not like changes to the the numbers they know and love. As an example, London Country routes south of the Thames were generally in the 4XX series. When London Country was broken up for privatisation, Kentish Bus took over the routes in the SE London borders/NW Kent area and tried to renumber the routes. The 477 became the 17, the 402 became the 22 and so on.

However, within a short time they reverted to the old familiar numbers!
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Old 5th January 2017, 23:32   #26
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Originally Posted by MotCO View Post
I think that there is much history associated with individual bus route numbers, and passengers do not like changes to the the numbers they know and love. As an example, London Country routes south of the Thames were generally in the 4XX series. When London Country was broken up for privatisation, Kentish Bus took over the routes in the SE London borders/NW Kent area and tried to renumber the routes. The 477 became the 17, the 402 became the 22 and so on.

However, within a short time they reverted to the old familiar numbers!
What made it more entertaining is that the public had - on some routes - the choice between green buses running on the route numbers that had been in place since the mid 30s or yellow / maroon buses on route new route numbers.

The green 477s were Transcity - picture (not mine) here
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:31   #27
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Bucks CC brokered a joint service between High Wycombe and Chesham by Carousel and Arriva as route 1. They continue to different local destinations in Chesham and are branded Red1 and Blue1. Confusing for passengers when Carousel substitute one of their blue school service vehicles.

I remember at my aunt's in South Wales in thr 60s, Western Welsh didn't display route numbers at all, just the final destination.
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Old 6th January 2017, 10:21   #28
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Looking at Newport Transport's map there is some logic in that

15/16/17/18/19 go up Malpas Road to Bettws and Malpas
26/27/28/29 go along Caerleon Road to Caerleon / Cwmbran
30/34/35/36/37 go along Cardiff Road to Cardiff, Duffryn, Celtic Springs and Rhiwderin
42/43 go down Corporation Road to Lliwerry and Spytty Park
73/74 go along Chepstow Road to Chepstow

Although after that it falls down as, for example, the Alway and Ringland services which also use Chepstow Road are 6 and 8, the 60 goes to Monmouth via Caerleon but the 62 and 63 go to the villages on the eastern fringes if Newport.

NAT have numbered their Newport services sequentially N1/N2/N3 etc

Stagecoach is just a mess with oddities such as the 15 and X15 being completely different routes - a legacy of takeovers and mergers over the years.

http://www.newportbus.co.uk/_literat...S_MAP_OCT_2016
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Old 6th January 2017, 10:48   #29
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Before the busway, Cambridge used to have 2x 1,2,3 which all stopped in the city centre. It's because the "Citi" buses were technically "Citi 1", but if you weren't particularly vigilant, you definitely could have gotten on the 1 to Huntingdon. (This now runs, I believe, as the 1A).
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:15   #30
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Quote:
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Before the busway, Cambridge used to have 2x 1,2,3 which all stopped in the city centre. It's because the "Citi" buses were technically "Citi 1", but if you weren't particularly vigilant, you definitely could have gotten on the 1 to Huntingdon. (This now runs, I believe, as the 1A).
The Busway routes are now just single letters - A, B, C, R and U (though R and U only use the southern Busway).

Whippet still runs a 1A to St Ives which does not use the Busway.
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