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Old 8th January 2017, 16:47   #1
AnkleBoots
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Default Woking weekend day travelcard restrictions

I bought a Super Off Peak day travelcard from Woking ticket office yesterday and the staff said that I could not use it to come back before 6:30pm. This seems surprising for a weekend.

I then played with the ticket machine to find out more and it seems that this restriction only applies from Waterloo or Clapham or Vauxhall.

To get round this could I have boarded at Waterloo eg at 5pm on a train stopping at Surbiton, get off and on the same train there, and would be able to honestly tell the Woking barrier people that I had boarded at Surbiton? Or is this fraud.

Thanks
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Old 8th January 2017, 17:34   #2
globetrotter
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This seems to be correct :

Restriction Code: UR

APPLICABLE DAYS

Saturday, Sunday & Public
Holidays

OUTWARD AND RETURN TRAVEL

If boarding at the stations
below, not valid on trains
departing:

London Terminals: 04:30-10:59
& 16:30-19:00

Vauxhall: 04:30-11:05 &
16:03-18:35

Queenstown Road: 04:30-11:05_&
16:03-18:35

Clapham Junction: 04:30-11:05
& 16:09-18:40

Any other station in London
Zones 1-6 not listed above:
04:30-10:59


Presumably you could travel by District Line to Wimbledon and return from there, as you then would not be "boarding" at any of the stations with PM restrictions.
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Old 9th January 2017, 00:18   #3
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This reminds me of when FCC introduced the evening peak and applied it to Travelcards (or tried to). The trick would be to alight and reboard outside the restricted area, as long as that was within the TC zones. On the GN route this could be Oakleigh Park or something.

I think they tried to make conditions to get around this but I have no idea how successful they were, or how many people weren't allowed through (manual) barrier checks back then.

I recall even now you get warned (GTR) you may get a penalty fare when they can only excess you.

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Old 9th January 2017, 01:19   #4
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If you board at a non-barred station, you're valid.

It's unclear whether you can alight from a train and re-board the same one.

But, for sure, boarding a train you were not on previously, ie. getting a train a few minutes ahead and waiting for the next one, is legit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
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Originally Posted by AnkleBoots View Post
To get round this could I have boarded at Waterloo eg at 5pm on a train stopping at Surbiton, get off and on the same train there, and would be able to honestly tell the Woking barrier people that I had boarded at Surbiton? Or is this fraud.
That's perfectly valid.
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:55   #5
paulweaver
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Is the ticket valid for Waterloo to Clapham in those evening times? Or indeed Clapham to Olympia? I.e does the restriction apply to the travelcard part?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmorris0844 View Post

I recall even now you get warned (GTR) you may get a penalty fare when they can only excess you.

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A train company acting dishonestly and making a financial gain from it (selling a more expensive ticket than needed)?

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Old 9th January 2017, 09:16   #6
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Originally Posted by paulweaver View Post
Is the ticket valid for Waterloo to Clapham in those evening times? Or indeed Clapham to Olympia? I.e does the restriction apply to the travelcard part?
Absolutely not. That would be unlawful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulweaver View Post
A train company acting dishonestly and making a financial gain from it (selling a more expensive ticket than needed)?
Absolutely normal for some train companies, and they're seemingly immune from prosecution. It's not a level playing field.
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Old 9th January 2017, 11:13   #7
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I asked a GTR RPI about the peak train issue, and he admitted that they couldn't give a penalty fare to someone with an off-peak ticket on a train getting to King's Cross before 10am.

He did however say that they'd seek to MG11 if they thought someone was doing it to avoid paying the correct fare, so perhaps that's what now happens?
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Old 9th January 2017, 23:21   #8
AnkleBoots
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Weekend leisure travellers really don't need these unnecessary complications!

Although it's quite a bit cheaper than the Off Peak ticket.

Thanks for your help
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Old 9th January 2017, 23:40   #9
bb21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkleBoots View Post
Weekend leisure travellers really don't need these unnecessary complications!

Although it's quite a bit cheaper than the Off Peak ticket.

Thanks for your help
They can of course withdraw these Super Off-Peak fares to "simply" things.

Seriously I doubt anyone would care. The current restrictions prevent the use of the faster trains at busier times which is what they were seeking I would suspect. If you are willing to get a slower suburban train by boarding at Wimbledon then fair play.

If you want full flexibility then there is of course an appropriate product for it, with "Anytime" in the name.
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:07   #10
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The concept of only restricting the certain stations is nothing new, the Weekday Super Off Peak tickets on SWT have had very similar restrictions for years.
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:21   #11
RJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkleBoots View Post
To get round this could I have boarded at Waterloo eg at 5pm on a train stopping at Surbiton, get off and on the same train there, and would be able to honestly tell the Woking barrier people that I had boarded at Surbiton? Or is this fraud.
You could get off at any station between Waterloo and Woking and do the hat dance on every platform before re-boarding. It doesn't change the fact that you boarded the train at Waterloo.

You'd be better off buying a ticket that doesn't have time restrictions that affect you.
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Old 10th January 2017, 10:41   #12
yorkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkleBoots View Post
Weekend leisure travellers really don't need these unnecessary complications!
Be careful what you wish for! Pricing managers read this forum intently. This post could be interpreted as a request to abolish these fares. If too many people appear to want them abolished, they might well end up being removed.

You have to make the best of the system that you can if you want to save money. Some restrictions are daft, and it's easy to get around them, but if the cheaper fares did not exist, we'd all pay more.
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Old 10th January 2017, 20:42   #13
AnkleBoots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ View Post
You could get off at any station between Waterloo and Woking and do the hat dance on every platform before re-boarding. It doesn't change the fact that you boarded the train at Waterloo.
It does mean I can truthfully say that I boarded the train at Surbiton though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie View Post
Be careful what you wish for! Pricing managers read this forum intently. This post could be interpreted as a request to abolish these fares. If too many people appear to want them abolished, they might well end up being removed.
The ticket costs little more than a Z1-6 Travelcard, so definitely good value (so thanks to any Pricing Managers reading)! Am going to read more of this forum to find more "sweet spots".

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Old 10th January 2017, 21:20   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb21 View Post
They can of course withdraw these Super Off-Peak fares to "simply" things.

Seriously I doubt anyone would care. The current restrictions prevent the use of the faster trains at busier times which is what they were seeking I would suspect. If you are willing to get a slower suburban train by boarding at Wimbledon then fair play.

If you want full flexibility then there is of course an appropriate product for it, with "Anytime" in the name.
How much less busy are the Basingstoke and Alton trains? This stop at Surbiton twice an hour for each destination but only once an hour at Clapham Junction for each destination. For the other train it skips Clapham Junction but not Surbiton.

Of course they would be within their rights to include Surbiton in the restrictions stations list.

Last edited by infobleep; 15th January 2017 at 13:02.
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Old 10th January 2017, 21:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infobleep View Post
Hpw much less busy are the Basingstoke and Alton trains?
Nowhere near as busy as the longer distance ones I believe, helped by off-peak capacity typically being 8 cars compared to 5 for the latter.

I don't think you can overtake if travelling to Woking once you get to Surbiton, as the gap in front of the faster trains are too big to catch up with the stopper before one would have got off but I may be wrong.
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