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Old 14th January 2017, 07:35   #46
philthetube
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Originally Posted by kaygee276 View Post
Sprinter153, as I have outlined previously I was civil to him.
I was not rude nor vulgar. I wasn't happy about the situation, but who would be if they were in my shoes?
His lack of explanation or discussion meant it was like interacting with an automaton who did not deviate from his path. Hence I used the term 'jobs worth'. There was zero conversational interaction during the time he spoke to me.
When you are in a public facing role like his, and acting as the face of the railway company, I believe that most people would expect a level of humanity when being dealt with. My experience was not like this at all.
By the way, I'm a woman, not that it makes a difference I keep seeing me referred to a 'he' or 'him'

Also to clarify, when I bought the ticket at the machine, it did not reject the number I entered, it let me continue through to payment.
In the world of technological capability that we live in, and identity scrutiny that we see every day in our lives, it is surprising there is no second level of verification at the point of typing in your photo card number.
Someone elses fault then?

I assume you mean that the machine should check it against your credit card? Are you sure you really want that?
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Old 14th January 2017, 10:43   #47
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Originally Posted by kaygee276 View Post
Also to clarify, when I bought the ticket at the machine, it did not reject the number I entered, it let me continue through to payment.
In the world of technological capability that we live in, and identity scrutiny that we see every day in our lives, it is surprising there is no second level of verification at the point of typing in your photo card number.
What do you propose it verifies it against?
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Old 14th January 2017, 12:23   #48
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no I didn't

my gold card does have that insert in the corner, however I have had plenty of weekly and monthly seasons that simply don't say that, such as the one I've attached (sorry for poor quality, it's faded quite a bit)
Good luck writing on a random Photocard ID number and then claiming nobody said it had to match the actual number of the photocard you were carrying.

By all means post your results here, but give us a heads up so we can get the popcorn ready.
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Old 14th January 2017, 13:11   #49
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What do you propose it verifies it against?
Either:
  • The season ticket database (I'm sure I've heard that some TVMs can link up to the back office season ticket database system used in the booking office)
or
  • The number could include check digits like a passport number or IBAN bank account number, giving a high probability that a randomly wrong number would fail the check
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Old 14th January 2017, 13:20   #50
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Either:
  • The season ticket database (I'm sure I've heard that some TVMs can link up to the back office season ticket database system used in the booking office)
or
  • The number could include check digits like a passport number or IBAN bank account number, giving a high probability that a randomly wrong number would fail the check
The first option is feasible but significantly increases overheads. The second option requires that everyone gets a new photocard.
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Old 14th January 2017, 19:08   #51
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How about a postcode or a DOB?
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Old 14th January 2017, 19:31   #52
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How about a postcode or a DOB?
neither of those are unique.
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Old 14th January 2017, 19:52   #53
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Originally Posted by kaygee276 View Post
How about a postcode or a DOB?
And why should I need to give the TOC my date of birth or address to buy a train ticket?
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Old 14th January 2017, 20:03   #54
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The first option is feasible but significantly increases overheads. The second option requires that everyone gets a new photocard.
The second option wouldn't really be hard to do. Just have a period of a year or so when both old and new photocards are valid, and require that anyone buying a ticket or railcard whose validity extends beyond that transition period get a new-style photocard at the same time (if they don't already have one). At the end of that period, the old cards become invalid. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other security features that could be incorporated into a new photocard at the same time.

You probably ideally need people to renew photocards every so often in any case to make sure that photos remain reasonably up-to-date.
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Old 14th January 2017, 20:10   #55
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At what point in evolution did human beings lose the ability to read a number on a card, type that number into a machine and check it's correct before pressing enter?

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Old 14th January 2017, 20:15   #56
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Originally Posted by kaygee276 View Post
How about a postcode or a DOB?
How about you just read the number of your photocard before entering it?
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Old 14th January 2017, 20:15   #57
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At what point in evolution did human beings lose the ability to read a number on a card, type that number into a machine and check it's correct before pressing enter?
Only at any point when it's rail related, it seems. Banking, some sort of reward card or anything else, no problem.
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Old 15th January 2017, 06:41   #58
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Only at any point when it's rail related, it seems. Banking, some sort of reward card or anything else, no problem.
In my experience, people quite often get numbers wrong in banking. The difference is that, in banking, there are sufficient check digits etc. that if you get the number wrong, it's virtually guaranteed that the entire transaction will be immediately rejected[1], causing you to fix the problem. In most online things, the numbers will also be displayed back to you before you confirm, giving you an extra chance to check them (I don't know if rail ticket machines do that for photocard numbers?)

[1] Unless of course, the number in question is the amount
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Old 15th January 2017, 10:35   #59
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In most online things, the numbers will also be displayed back to you before you confirm, giving you an extra chance to check them (I don't know if rail ticket machines do that for photocard numbers?)
Yes, the number is displayed on the screen.
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Old 15th January 2017, 10:38   #60
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So for the tickets that do not have the text printed on them, it relies on an implicit interpretation of "supported by." followed by "which" (i.e. meaning "which additionally") instead of "that", together with any text in the version of the season ticket terms you were given at the time of purchase.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So questions for kaygee276 are whether the machine you used explains it is only valid if the number matches and whether the ticket has such text printed on it or not.

Where does the purchaser agree to an unambiguous condition that the numbers have to match? Just implicitly now because it's "obvious" they need to do so?
Doesn't British consumer law forbid the addition of restrictive clauses after the transaction? So the extra restriction printed on the ticket (requirement for the number to match) is only applicable if the purchaser is advised of it beforehand. It would need to be in the published t&c of the TOC (or NCRoT),
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