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Old 23rd May 2012, 20:45   #16
90019
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Originally Posted by overthewater View Post
* Edinburgh
That's already started.

Dalkeith doesn't have very long left now.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 20:48   #17
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Please get first out of Norwich!
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:07   #18
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The speculation does make me wonder about York (since they gained ex South Yorkshire Geminis to replace the ftrs - the Geminis would be much more "standard" for any new operator to inherit if the York operations were to be flogged off).

York isn't linked to any other First operations (compared to the potential confusion if they sold off part of their West Yorkshire routes, since the four main areas there are linked up), it may suit Stagecoach, given their successes in Oxford and Cambridge (similar operating territory, congested central streets, P&Rs, tourists etc).

Also, whilst many in South Yorkshire have speculated about the old Mainline operations being sold on (little investment, many routes cut, surrendering market share to Stagecoach etc), we have seen repainted buses (albeit four/five year old ones, but at least rebranded in the new livery) and we do have new ticket machines. Then again, since First don't sell off mid-life vehicles, they'll need *somewhere* for the redundant buses that they plan to run into the ground to operate...

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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
I wonder if more First operations in West Yorkshire will finish up being Centrebus operations
I doubt Centrebus would have the pockets to buy anything from First. Maybe they'll win some more fringe routes that WY Metro tender of course.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:10   #19
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good riddence to bad rubbish I say. Defo must be something in the roomers Livi's going plus another FSE Depot.
Maybe Dumbarton too
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:23   #20
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I think this may explain a lot:

Quote:
O'Toole said the UK bus division — which operates in cities including Glasgow, Manchester and London — was the only part of the group not to have delivered according to plan, with operating profit falling nearly 10% to 134.4m. "We were surprised in January by our very poor yield after higher fares. We'll be selling certain operations — based on the depots we've sold this year we think there's appetite for this."
They expected people to continue as before on higher fares as though nothing had happened. Whoops. You raise fares, some people will try alternatives. It's obvious. Did they really not consider this...?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:35   #21
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Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
I think this may explain a lot:



They expected people to continue as before on higher fares as though nothing had happened. Whoops. You raise fares, some people will try alternatives. It's obvious. Did they really not consider this...?
It had worked for many years, rising the fares above inflation has been a very popular tactic for them (would be interesting to compare a two mile/ five mile journey for single ticket prices in a typical First operation to a typical Stagecoach one), they must have thought they had a licence to print money, but things appear to have "snapped" and people just cannot afford this further increase.

Also worth pointing out that a lot of the "leisure" market isn't there these days, and a lot of town centres are becoming unattractive (look at how the big shops have moved out of Rochdale, Rotherham etc) - you can't rely on people paying 10% more each year when the "product" is less attractive.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:36   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
They expected people to continue as before on higher fares as though nothing had happened. Whoops. You raise fares, some people will try alternatives. It's obvious. Did they really not consider this...?
In the past, increased income from the captive market through fare rises has outweighed reductions in passenger numbers. It has always been assumed that bus patronage is inelastic, but perhaps now that is changing. The captive market may well have shrunk too much to be relied upon. Places like Surrey experienced this some years ago, leading to mass deregistrations, with many parts of the county reliant totally on tendered services, but this phenomenon may be spreading.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 21:56   #23
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I have to admit Ivo does raise a very good point.

I my local area a day ticket with First costs 5.00 however I can hop on the train for only 1.80 so which one do you think I use?.

Also the price of short distance single tickets has risen sharply and unlike First Stagecoach South Wales offer a good variety of different tickets which are cheaper and better value for money than what First offer.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 22:05   #24
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Lets see if anyone can beat this;

For unlimited travel around the city of Stirling, NOTE this is just Stirling nothing else.,

First Day: 5.80
First Week 23.00

You can see the zone here: http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scot..._Zones_Map.pdf

its a pure and utter disgrace.....
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Old 23rd May 2012, 22:15   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthewater View Post
I have heard talk that the following areas are the most likely area to get sold off are:

* Edinburgh
* York
* Northampton
* Chester

Yorkshire, Manchester and most of the south safe.
Be interesting to see how that affects leicester and the re allocation of staff and vehicles....

the major worry with sell offs is the transferring of staff as it doesn't always happen, We can hope that it does.

Also I haven't heard of leicester getting the new scheme yet either, as well as newer vehicles and some of them need replacing already. It will definitely be interesting to see the outcome of this and the impact on the areas in which they still operate as a whole.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 22:44   #26
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From what I believe there a few areas which will see proper overhauls like Southampton, but it will take time, to get everything sorted.

I have heard Aberdeen, Leicester, and Worcester are being lined up for it...
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Old 23rd May 2012, 22:54   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthewater View Post
From what I believe there a few areas which will see proper overhauls like Southampton, but it will take time, to get everything sorted.

I have heard Aberdeen, Leicester, and Worcester are being lined up for it...
A lot of places First serve need an overhaul to revitalise them. The only one around here that is pretty much safe from that is Bristol; I for one believe Bath needs quite a bit of work - note to First, I'm only an e-mail only - but I doubt they agree.

Among those that you suggest are set for an overhaul, you have to admit it would be a massive shock if they sold Aberdeen (as opposed to said overhaul). They're based there for Heaven's sake!
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Old 23rd May 2012, 23:24   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo View Post
A lot of places First serve need an overhaul to revitalise them. The only one around here that is pretty much safe from that is Bristol; I for one believe Bath needs quite a bit of work - note to First, I'm only an e-mail only - but I doubt they agree.

Among those that you suggest are set for an overhaul, you have to admit it would be a massive shock if they sold Aberdeen (as opposed to said overhaul). They're based there for Heaven's sake!
when you think about it is only like a manufacturing company. HQ in the UK and made in china....

honest answers, do we really think they are going to pull out of scotland completely like Arriva did a month or two back?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 23:28   #29
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when you think about it is only like a manufacturing company. HQ in the UK and made in china....

honest answers, do we really think they are going to pull out of scotland completely like Arriva did a month or two back?
No, I believe there will keep hold of Glasgow, Aberdeen and die trying to retain Scotrail... while the rest of FSE will probley get sold.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 23:30   #30
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It seems growth has been very poor on the uk bus front and it seems there planing to sell off alot quicker.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...?newsfeed=true
Plenty of spin I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Stool
FirstGroup pointed out it was the only transport operator to have pre-qualified for all four of the railway franchises currently on offer, including the prestigious west coast franchise and the great western route.
How's that significant? It doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Stool
O'Toole was also upbeat about the Olympics, for which FirstGroup claims to be "the main provider of spectator transport", or at least those services chartered by the Olympic Delivery Authority. "It will be a great time for the tube and for us as well as we run hundreds of buses, a chance to get these new buses and cascade them through the network."
Great! More of London's cast-offs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overthewater View Post
From what I believe there a few areas which will see proper overhauls like Southampton, but it will take time, to get everything sorted.

I have heard Aberdeen, Leicester, and Worcester are being lined up for it...
God, no. Please leave Leicester's routes in peace. 54 goes to the General Hospital, oh no, 14 goes to the General Hospital, oh no, 54 goes ...

Make up your frigging mind!

Mass deregistration of evening journeys seems to have helped WorstGroup with their profit margins in Leicester. It's a shame that they now have awful reputation.

Also, 1.80 for two fare stages? Who are you kidding? (In comparison, Arriva charge 1.40 for two fare stages.)
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