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Old 11th January 2017, 11:13   #5491
AaronR
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Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo View Post
There are a few things to consider

We don't actually know how well these places are trading. Clearly, places like Wigan were massively overdue fleet replacement with R reg Excels and P reg Darts pootling around the place.

Also, in the case of Plymouth, there was the ridiculous Ugobus incursion and the subsequent sell up to Go Ahead of PCB. The fall out was bad enough but then Go Ahead turned the tables and began all out war with a mortally weakened First. With Stagecoach going in there, and peace immediately being declared, it was going to allow fleet replacement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That's already happened with First Eastern Counties getting a number of ex Leeds 12 plate Geminis. To a lesser extent, Essex did get a number of e400s from Leicester as Trident replacements, displaced by new Streetdecks.

I think in terms of Potteries, they're trying to strike the balance between putting in new fleet (but being crippled by the depreciation cost) and not trying to gently upgrade the rest of the fleet (ALX B7TLs being replaced by newer B7 Geminis).
It's about time FEC Ipswich had some investment! The fleet there consist of various hand me downs that although have been refurbished are now getting old. It would be good to get some new vehicles on the Ipswich - Felixstowe routes as they are always well loaded, as are the Stowmarket routes. The excuse is always that the depot at Ipswich cannot accommodate higher deckers but surely at some stage it makes sense to invest in the depot to change that? Norwich has had major investment and is always getting the new buses/newer transfers but Ipswich gets nothing.
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Old 11th January 2017, 16:40   #5492
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http://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-an...-01-2017a.aspx
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First Bus contactless commitment for customers

10 Jan 2017

Contactless pilot set to go live in Bristol by end of January 2017
Wider rollout of contactless technology planned across First Bus operations during 2017 & 2018 complementing its successful mobile ticketing and smartcard platforms*
Roll out will be underpinned by partnerships to deliver wider City and Regional schemes including working with Transport for the North (TfN) and Transport Scotland on delivery of multi modal schemes providing better value for customers*

The UKs leading operator, First Bus, today announced a commitment to allow its customers to pay for travel through the use of contactless debit and credit cards. *

First Bus customers can already pay for bus travel using its successful smartcard and mobile payment (mTickets) mechanisms. *The company sees the contactless bank card as a further means of reducing the use of cash on buses and as a result speeding up boarding times and services across the UK.

The introduction of the new technology will begin with a trial in Bristol this month on Brislington and Portway Park and Ride services. *Roll out across the First Bus fleet will be achieved over the next two years working in partnership with city and regional partners such as TfN and Transport Scotland, Combined Authorities and local authorities. *

Shortened
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Old 11th January 2017, 22:30   #5493
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First West Yorkshire is the only one waiting to be submitted....

MIDLAND Bluebird, Looking at this, I'm a bit confused at the MAJOR cuts, I expect cuts but I don't think 20 buses being taken off the road? Remember Gala got 6 buses taken off, Stirling had 7, Larbert 7 and Balfron the rest. So its not easy to track which depot causing the trouble either..



First Edinburgh: Muss depot closed.



First Glasgow no1

Still made 6million in profit, not a poor man operations


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Old 11th January 2017, 22:46   #5494
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Midland Bluebird would be the effect of the opening of the Borders Railway which resulted in cuts after the year end.
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Old 11th January 2017, 22:49   #5495
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Midland Bluebird would be the effect of the opening of the Borders Railway which resulted in cuts after the year end.
Of course, what I was trying to mean is the cuts were across the broad, and looking at those accounts there only loses of 300'000-ish. Yet someone at the company believe that it needed to trim even more fat beyond that of Borders Railway. Or was it the fact the company just wanted to get the routes right back down to the bone to see whats going on.
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Old 12th January 2017, 12:45   #5496
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First West Yorkshire is the only one waiting to be submitted....

MIDLAND Bluebird, Looking at this, I'm a bit confused at the MAJOR cuts, I expect cuts but I don't think 20 buses being taken off the road? Remember Gala got 6 buses taken off, Stirling had 7, Larbert 7 and Balfron the rest. So its not easy to track which depot causing the trouble either..
I wouldn't read too much into the management spiel which is written into the accounts. It's just a case of 'give us a couple of lines' to fill in a standard accounts report template. The bit about safety is repeated every year, unchanged.

As mentioned, by Grand Wazoo initially, the accounts mean not a lot really. They undoubtedly comply with the law and accounting regulations but things can be hidden, or not referred to. In the accounts for First Potteries, there is a line, under operating costs, of 3,155 (,000) for 'other external charges'. That could refer to group company re-charges, head office re-charges or be a means of moving profits within the group so the subsidiaries all make a loss (with tax advantages) whilst another company in the wider group makes a profit - think of licencing fees charged by companies based in off-shore tax havens to group companies based in the UK (and elsewhere). Similarly debt created between companies at higher than would reasonably be expected rates. I'm not saying that happens within First but it happens in many large groups.
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Old 12th January 2017, 13:24   #5497
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Cheers. Its also possible MB has to pay off its debt it racked up over the year, no fault of its own.

First Glasgow No2 making 4million profit.
First Aberdeen making 3.5 million.

First South Yorkshire Ltd did not expect this:

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Old 12th January 2017, 14:10   #5498
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Cheers. Its also possible MB has to pay off its debt it racked up over the year, no fault of its own.

First Glasgow No2 making 4million profit.
First Aberdeen making 3.5 million.

First South Yorkshire Ltd did not expect this:

And that's before they close Rotherham.
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Old 12th January 2017, 15:04   #5499
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And that's before they close Rotherham.
Has that closed yet?
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Old 12th January 2017, 16:10   #5500
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Has that closed yet?
Closes next month IIRC

As Robert says, they cut the losses and that's before Rotherham goes. I don't know how large Rotherham depot actually is but had a quick go with a ruler and google maps. If it's about 160 ft2, then look at 4 a sq ft just for business rates and utilities. Make some savings in the back office and you see why they're doing it.

Can make the same case with First Manchester closing Bury
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Old 12th January 2017, 17:46   #5501
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As mentioned, by Grand Wazoo initially, the accounts mean not a lot really. They undoubtedly comply with the law and accounting regulations but things can be hidden, or not referred to.
Had time to have a look at Companies House website today. Bearing the above in mind, there are good performances from a number of subsids. Leicester, Hampshire and Cymru continue to increase margins and profits whilst South West is clearly on the road to recovery.

However, big urban operations like Bristol and South Yorkshire should surely be doing better, whilst Somerset and Avon continues to fall further into loss (not a basket case yet but headed that way.....). The closure of Rotherham should help South Yorkshire's financial performance.

Makes the newness of the fleet at Wells even more puzzling given the underlying FSA financial results.....

Reinforces the need to invest in fleets in Glasgow and West Yorkshire, though; they provide the lion's share of the profits.
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Old 12th January 2017, 18:22   #5502
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Had time to have a look at Companies House website today. Bearing the above in mind, there are good performances from a number of subsids. Leicester, Hampshire and Cymru continue to increase margins and profits whilst South West is clearly on the road to recovery.

However, big urban operations like Bristol and South Yorkshire should surely be doing better, whilst Somerset and Avon continues to fall further into loss (not a basket case yet but headed that way.....). The closure of Rotherham should help South Yorkshire's financial performance.

Makes the newness of the fleet at Wells even more puzzling given the underlying FSA financial results.....

Reinforces the need to invest in fleets in Glasgow and West Yorkshire, though; they provide the lion's share of the profits.
Somerset and Avon - the turnover has increased, but operating costs have risen more, supposedly due to increase in staff costs. Those figures are also before 231, 375 and 377 left S&A, so I would expect it to be slightly better after March 16. I expect the losses are more relating to Bath, Bristol and Weston rather than Wells.
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Old 12th January 2017, 19:00   #5503
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I expect the losses are more relating to Bath, Bristol and Weston rather than Wells.
Do you have any basis in fact for that statement?
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Old 12th January 2017, 19:09   #5504
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Do you have any basis in fact for that statement?
Well mainly because Wells has 26 vehicles. Bath, Bristol (MH) and Weston are all very much bigger. Wells makes very large profits on 376 and good profits on both 173 and 126. As 375 and 377 are still around, I would assume they were just breaking even and at that time 161 and 174 were also breaking even. Therefore mainly basing it on the services that they operate, I can't hardly think it's mostly to do with Wells. Wells is much much smaller than any of the other depots, so how can it contribute so much of loss exactly?
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Old 12th January 2017, 19:17   #5505
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Well mainly because Wells has 26 vehicles. Bath, Bristol (MH) and Weston are all very much bigger. Wells makes very large profits on 376 and good profits on both 173 and 126. As 375 and 377 are still around, I would assume they were just breaking even and at that time 161 and 174 were also breaking even. Therefore mainly basing it on the services that they operate, I can't hardly think it's mostly to do with Wells. Wells is much much smaller than any of the other depots, so how can it contribute so much of loss exactly?
So the answer is NO !
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