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Old 17th February 2017, 14:56   #1
SA_900
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Default Season ticket - break of journey

Hold a season ticket for Redhill to London Terminals.

Is Denmark Hill classed as an intermediate station?

And am I entitled to make an unlimited number of journeys to any intermediate station?

Because my Southern smartcard didn't work at Denmark Hill and I was told to buy a return to London Bridge (my origin that day).
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:00   #2
Neil Williams
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Season tickets are valid for unlimited journeys either full or in part over any Permitted Route (if not restricted with a route on the ticket). Break of journey is not directly relevant, because each time you travel it's just a new journey.

However, looking at a map, I can't see why Denmark Hill would be on a Permitted Route between London Terminals and Redhill, it makes no sense at all.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:09   #3
SA_900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
Season tickets are valid for unlimited journeys either full or in part over any Permitted Route (if not restricted with a route on the ticket). Break of journey is not directly relevant, because each time you travel it's just a new journey.

However, looking at a map, I can't see why Denmark Hill would be on a Permitted Route between London Terminals and Redhill, it makes no sense at all.
Thanks- so it's not valid? Hospital trust I work at is part based there and part based in central London. My origin was actually from London Blackfriars.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:13   #4
robbeech
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Most journey planners will happily give you an itinerary with changes at Clapham Junction and Denmark Hill itself to London Terminals, Victoria in this case so i don't see why not in theory. To/From London Bridge is likely pushing it a bit more although as said, each bit is a new journey.

Is Blackfriars acceptable as London Terminals from Redhill?

Last edited by robbeech; 17th February 2017 at 15:14.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:15   #5
Joe Paxton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
...
However, looking at a map, I can't see why Denmark Hill would be on a Permitted Route between London Terminals and Redhill, it makes no sense at all.
Redhill - East Croydon - Peckham Rye - Victoria/Blackfriars (passing through Denmark Hill) ?

Last edited by Joe Paxton; 17th February 2017 at 15:16.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:16   #6
Neil Williams
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Thanks- so it's not valid? Hospital trust I work at is part based there and part based in central London. My origin was actually from London Blackfriars.
I don't know for certain if it's a Permitted Route on a technicality or not - to me it doesn't make sense, but there are anomalies in the Routeing Guide of course.

But in general the way it works for a point to point season is you generate the list of permitted routes for the full journey, and can make any partial journey over any of those routes.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:20   #7
tony_mac
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National Rail enquiries shows Clapham Junction - Denmark Hill - Elephant and Castle as a valid route.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:22   #8
SA_900
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National Rail enquiries shows Clapham Junction - Denmark Hill - Elephant and Castle as a valid route.
This would be good news. But also highlights why I made a mistake getting a smartcard. No one seems to have any idea what ticket you actually hold (e.g. for rail replacement busses or non-Southern services).
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:23   #9
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Originally Posted by robbeech View Post
Most journey planners will happily give you an itinerary with changes at Clapham Junction and Denmark Hill itself to London Terminals, Victoria in this case so i don't see why not in theory. To/From London Bridge is likely pushing it a bit more although as said, each bit is a new journey.

Is Blackfriars acceptable as London Terminals from Redhill?
Yes, London Blackfriars does seemed to be classed as one of the London Terminals for the purposes of my ticket.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:26   #10
Romilly
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I certainly cannot come up with itineraries via Denmark Hill for a Redhill to London Terminals ticket, but can produce itineraries for that ticket via Loughborough Junction station which, on the ground, is not far from Denmark Hill station: the hospital is between the two stations.

This squares with the Routeing Guide. The only maps valid for a Redhill-London ticket are LB and VB, and neither shows a route through Denmark Hill (but LB does show a route through Loughborough Junction - and also a route through Peckham Rye).

Last edited by Romilly; 17th February 2017 at 15:32.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:44   #11
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Quote:
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Yes, London Blackfriars does seemed to be classed as one of the London Terminals for the purposes of my ticket.
Yes - I do it almost daily.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:50   #12
greatkingrat
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If you were starting from Croydon you could get a ticket to Denmark Hill routed "London Not Und" for the same price as the London Terminals ticket, which would be indisputably valid to both London and Denmark Hill. Unfortunately the only Redhill - Denmark Hill season is routed Not Via London.

I think you can argue you were wrongly charged a fare from London - Denmark Hill, the correct excess due should have been Peckham Rye - Denmark Hill.
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Old 17th February 2017, 16:03   #13
soil
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Redhill - London is mapped LB and VB.

The valid routes are Victoria - Herne Hill (VB), and Victoria/Waterloo - Clapham Junction (LB), London Bridge - Peckham Rye (LB), London Bridge - New Cross Gate (LB), Blackfriars - Herne Hill (LB).

Denmark Hill is not on either map.

As a shortest route, Blackfriars - Redhill is 20.99 miles according to RJIS, or 20.5 according to the timetable. Redhill - Denmark Hill - Blackfriars 22.5 miles/22.32 miles. So it's valid on that basis.

Hence Denmark Hill - London Bridge is valid on this ticket.
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Old 17th February 2017, 16:28   #14
SA_900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soil View Post
Redhill - London is mapped LB and VB.

The valid routes are Victoria - Herne Hill (VB), and Victoria/Waterloo - Clapham Junction (LB), London Bridge - Peckham Rye (LB), London Bridge - New Cross Gate (LB), Blackfriars - Herne Hill (LB).

Denmark Hill is not on either map.

As a shortest route, Blackfriars - Redhill is 20.99 miles according to RJIS, or 20.5 according to the timetable. Redhill - Denmark Hill - Blackfriars 22.5 miles/22.32 miles. So it's valid on that basis.

Hence Denmark Hill - London Bridge is valid on this ticket.
!!! Now to convince the gate staff...
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Old 17th February 2017, 19:24   #15
RJ
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Last edited by RJ; 17th February 2017 at 19:28.
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