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Old 7th March 2014, 18:23   #31
transmanche
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In an ideal world, we will have the ticket details printed on the front, and reservation details printed at the back, or even just bigger ticket stock, so everything fits on one coupon.
We could revert to the 'airline style' tickets which were used for a while (and still used by Eurostar and SNCF). Then you can print a barcode on them, to allow them to be used at ticket gates (certainly East Coast's gates have barcode readers for 'Print at Home' tickets, and others can have them fitted).
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Old 7th March 2014, 18:25   #32
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We could revert to the 'airline style' tickets which were used for a while (and still used by Eurostar and SNCF). Then you can print a barcode on them, to allow them to be used at ticket gates (certainly East Coast's gates have barcode readers for 'Print at Home' tickets, and others can have them fitted).
Yes, in an ideal world, but obviously I am not going to go down that avenue in this thread as we have had plenty of discussions on this matter before.
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Old 7th March 2014, 22:19   #33
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I like the idea of this but I somehow don't think we'll be seeing tickets printed in Rail Alphabet any time soon. The whole idea depends on the method of ticket printing and font, really.
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Old 7th March 2014, 23:09   #34
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I believe that Irish Rail have done this for a while, but I haven't seen an example myself. Does anyone know what they look like in practice (as opposed to mock-ups).

At least having the reservation(s) on the ticket will reduce the chance of coupons getting left in the TVM or coupons getting lost (whether accidentally or "accidentally").
I have a stack of them. Will scan some if I get around to it.
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Old 8th March 2014, 01:34   #35
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Thanks to kwvr45 for posting the scans. Compared to the original mockups I saw some months ago, some improvements have been made ... but I'm not entirely convinced.

I have an unusual position on this: I am a regular buyer of tickets, but also a collector. Having collected (and researched) tickets since the start of the APTIS era 25 years ago, this is a big thing to get used to - probably bigger than the change from APTIS to New Generation systems. Like most collectors, I collect mainly by machine number and system (S&B, Shere SMART, TRIBUTE etc). Having the machine number, NLC and window number in tiny print in the lower orange band is reasonable because that info is irrelevant to the passenger, but it will make my life more difficult! Other than that, the layout looks quite cluttered: as BB21 said, the classic five-character status code (Y-P, CHILD etc) was perfectly clear; why do we need a whole line of text? Why is the Class relegated to that same line?

Some other things that occur immediately:
- We have lost the long-established convention of having an asterisk after the station name, to prevent fraudulent additions (DERBY > DERBY RD IPSWICH and that sort of thing).
- Having more than 16 characters available for the route is good
- I think the circle/rhombus thing will work quite well
- Northern Rail, who are doing the trial, have two self-service TIS: Scheidt & Bachmann and Parkeon. Will we see one of each being used, I wonder? Whatever happens, the tickets won't look quite like the scans, given the unconventional fonts used by those systems
- I don't like the Advance ticket much. Why is the date so buried? Why so much unused space?


Just some random initial thoughts from somebody who has been looking at tickets day in day out for years

Please could anybody who gets hold of one of these tickets next week upload a scan if possible - that would be much appreciated.
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Old 8th March 2014, 01:41   #36
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While not an objective criticism of the new design, the information on the walk-up ticket certainly seems more sporadically arranged. With the old design, you knew where the 'from' 'to' and ticket type fields etc were; now the information is all over the place. There also seems to be more wasted space on the new design; surely this could be used to explain to the holder what restrictions 9I or B1 actually entail rather than two lines about where you can find the information.

I presume data will be encoded on the magnetic strip in exactly the same way so the new design operates ticket barriers correctly, but what happens when you find a guard who hasn't heard about the new design or doesn't know what the shapes mean and thinks something fishy is going on? A brief would need to be sent to all TOCs, not just one for Northern staff.

I know it would never happen because of the sheer vast amount of data that would need writing into TVMs but tickets printed with relevant easement numbers or relevant pages in the Routeing Guide for the journey being made would go some way in assisting the passenger when he/she runs into hassle with an over zealous / unfamiliar guard.

If it works, don't fix it. And I think the original ticket design works pretty well. But that's just my two cents.

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Old 8th March 2014, 01:53   #37
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I agree with everything JakeF says there. The "familiar" layout of info on tickets has been with us for nearly 35 years (since the INTIS system was introduced - the temporary stopgap between the mechanical/electromechanical era and the computer era), and so this change needs to be communicated very clearly and widely - otherwise there will be confusion, to say the least.

I've got a pile of tickets on the desk next to me, in the middle of being sorted out. Several different ticket issuing systems are represented; but the format is absolutely consistent. Basically nothing has changed since APTIS - the date is in the middle, the class is in large characters in the top left, the two stations are in the bottom left ... anybody checking the ticket can see all the relevant info easily. I just don't think the layout of either new-style ticket (standard or advance) is intuitive enough ... but I'm happy to be proved wrong! It's certainly going to be interesting times for us collectors
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Old 8th March 2014, 03:33   #38
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I agree with everything JakeF says there.
I think that's the first time anyone's actually agreed with me on this forum
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Old 8th March 2014, 04:04   #39
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I like it. The language is plain English, reservations are much clearer. Only thing is it might take whoever's checking it slightly longer to ascertain what railcard is being used. (Although I find my punters are quite good at showing railcards unprompted...)
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Old 8th March 2014, 09:34   #40
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I wish I could buy a First Class single from Penzance to York for £23!
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Old 8th March 2014, 09:59   #41
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+1 looks good, will take getting used too if rolled out nationally but I like it.
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Old 8th March 2014, 10:23   #42
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....There also seems to be more wasted space on the new design; surely this could be used to explain to the holder what restrictions 9I or B1 actually entail rather than two lines about where you can find the information....
There appears to be a space for 'a barcode' which presumably is some sort of future proofing.

Some of the restrictions are very lengthy, particularly those to, via and from London.

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....I presume data will be encoded on the magnetic strip in exactly the same way so the new design operates ticket barriers correctly, but what happens when you find a guard who hasn't heard about the new design or doesn't know what the shapes mean and thinks something fishy is going on? A brief would need to be sent to all TOCs, not just one for Northern staff....
Just to give you a sense of [no] hope, I haven't even received a brief on it, the first I heard of this launch was this thread, but then other TOCs do seem to tell their staff what is going on in a timely manner.

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....I know it would never happen because of the sheer vast amount of data that would need writing into TVMs but tickets printed with relevant easement numbers or relevant pages in the Routeing Guide for the journey being made would go some way in assisting the passenger when he/she runs into hassle with an over zealous / unfamiliar guard....
I get the impression ATOC wants to bury the Routeing Guide, so helping people use it is probably a low priority.
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Old 8th March 2014, 11:43   #43
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This makes it much more difficult to use a different non-reservable connecting train on an AP
I fail to see why, or how. The non-reservable train will be shown, but without a seat allocation, just as for the 'reservation' received now, which just has a time on it.
This is an extremely sensible move and avoids all the problems of having to have both coupons, or numerous for connecting services. I can't wait. Seems only railway staff who think it is a problem, fear if change? Surely it saves the hassle for staff, the 'have you got your reservation, or ticket?' questions I hear every day, or people not waiting for every coupon to drop, thinking the ticket one is it. Bring it on and fast.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Surprised by the lack of prior knowledge here. This was 'news' in the railway press many months ago. The two styles are the trials, the intention being one will be it. Buying a walk on fare is not possible with a reservation now, if you buy with a reservation the the correct title would be full fare, or flexible? Walk on means 'so you can walk on any train'. So I expect reservations, booked when purchasing a full fare/flexible ticket, would appear on the coupon.

Last edited by fireftrm; 8th March 2014 at 11:47. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 8th March 2014, 12:25   #44
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I fail to see why, or how. The non-reservable train will be shown, but without a seat allocation, just as for the 'reservation' received now, which just has a time on it.
This is an extremely sensible move and avoids all the problems of having to have both coupons, or numerous for connecting services. I can't wait. Seems only railway staff who think it is a problem, fear if change? Surely it saves the hassle for staff, the 'have you got your reservation, or ticket?' questions I hear every day, or people not waiting for every coupon to drop, thinking the ticket one is it. Bring it on and fast....
There are pros and cons to the new style.

Passenger buys an EMT only ticket from St Pancras to Matlock. On the existing style the passenger might be allowed to travel on an earlier or later connecting train from Derby as they are non-reservable and won't have a reservation coupon, but on this new style the passenger and staff are very much aware of which train the passenger should be on because it's printed on their ticket.

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....Surprised by the lack of prior knowledge here. This was 'news' in the railway press many months ago...
Frontline staff are usually the last to know. I knew they were coming because of a previous thread on this forum, but I only found out about the trial from this thread.

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....The two styles are the trials, the intention being one will be it. Buying a walk on fare is not possible with a reservation now, if you buy with a reservation the the correct title would be full fare, or flexible? Walk on means 'so you can walk on any train'. So I expect reservations, booked when purchasing a full fare/flexible ticket, would appear on the coupon.
It appears that the ticket type is printed on the ticket. Reservations are possible with 'walk up' tickets now, but if the reservations get printed on the same ticket in future people will start to believe that they are no longer 'open', even when they are.
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Old 8th March 2014, 12:30   #45
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Surprised by the lack of prior knowledge here. This was 'news' in the railway press many months ago.
It was also discussed here at length at that same time in the earlier locked thread. I'd hesitate before suggesting no-one was aware that the changes would be coming in this year, as ATOC originally announced.
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