91's, MKIV's and the Tyne Valley

Jock · 10th August 2012, 22:09

Evening Ladies and Gents,

can someone help me solve a argument between 3 retired auld fogies here.

are 91's + coaches cleared to run over the tyne valley given the height of the tunnel between Haltwhistle and Bardon Mill?

I ask this because i remember learning approx 4 years ago 91's+coaches not being allowed loco hauled through the tunnels at Sunderland North owing to the height/clearence between the panto/tunnel roof - and i could swear blind that the tunnel at Haltwhistle is roughly the same height.

can anyone who has access to the required info solve this dilemma for me!

Many Thanks
Jock

David10 · 10th August 2012, 22:14

Was in one of the magazines a few months ago that 91/MkIV sets will be dragged over the Tyne Valley line during engineering works in September.

DaveNewcastle · 10th August 2012, 22:19

It appears that the regular autumn diversions of East Coast services this year might be much briefer than in recent years - perhaps only on the weekend of 15th Sept. But please note that this is not reliable nor confirmed information.

In recent years, these diversions have been achieved by deploying HST sets over the route, though I do seem to recall an exceptional dragged electric set 2, 3 or perhaps more years ago. (I'd be a lousy spotter!)

Sorry that I can't add much more information.

kjhskj75 · 11th August 2012, 13:10

According to the sectional appendix Class 91 locos must have the pantograph locked down when passing through Whitchester tunnel, or else are limited to 15mph.

The restrictions at Sunderland are probably due to the presence of DC wiring.

In neither place is there any restriction on Mk4 coaches. They were built to a tilt-compatible profile, but never tilted, so they are quite narrow and don't have clearance problems.

craig87034 · 11th August 2012, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by David10

Was in one of the magazines a few months ago that 91/MkIV sets will be dragged over the Tyne Valley line during engineering works in September.

Yep According to Railways Illistrated September 15th
1E06 0650 Glasgow-Kings X
1S13 1100 Kings X-Edinburgh
1E29 1839 Edinburgh-Newcastle

Liam · 11th August 2012, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig87034

1E06 0650 Glasgow-Kings X

I assume this service will still go via Edinburgh? i'e Glasgow-Carstairs Junction, Edinburgh, Carstairs Junction, Carlisle, Newcastle.

jopsuk · 11th August 2012, 14:07

It would appear, from the East Coast site, that this is the case

Quote:

Glasgow Central 06:50
Motherwell 07:04 07:04
Haymarket 07:45 07:46
Edinburgh 07:51 07:59
Carlisle 09:22 09:42
Newcastle 11:07 11:26
Durham 11:41 11:41
Darlington 11:59 11:59
York 12:28 12:29
Doncaster 12:52 12:52
Newark North Gate 13:17 13:17
Peterborough 13:46 13:49
London Kings Cross 14:45

swt_passenger · 11th August 2012, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock

I ask this because i remember learning approx 4 years ago 91's+coaches not being allowed loco hauled through the tunnels at Sunderland North owing to the height/clearence between the panto/tunnel roof - and i could swear blind that the tunnel at Haltwhistle is roughly the same height.

I remember a discussion a few years ago that ended up with the firm conclusion that 91s/Mk4s are allowed through Sunderland tunnel, (with the pantograph locked down), and this was also confirmed in the 2009 snapshot of the ECML sectional appendix.

The recently re-issued online SA includes:

Quote:

Between Park Lane Jn and Greensfield Jn MK4 +A.C. Electric locos are permitted diesel
hauled for diversionary purposes only with pantographs locked down.

Jock · 12th August 2012, 00:16

Thank you for resolving this one

jopsuk · 12th August 2012, 07:50

As an aside, if you're travelling Glasgow-London early in the morning that day, are insistent on going via the Tyne valley but aren't worried about the stock, you're better off taking the 0710 TPE to Carlisle and boarding the EC HST from Edinburgh there!

bluenoxid · 12th August 2012, 17:47

Sorry, just for those of us with imaginations. When you say pantograph locked down, are you saying locked by a switch in the cab or locked as in bike chain and padlock (hey, these days nothing surprises me)

10th August 2012, 22:09	#1
Jock Retired man of lesiure Member Join Date: 15 Jul 2011 Location: Auchtermuchty Posts: 56	91's, MKIV's and the Tyne Valley Evening Ladies and Gents, can someone help me solve a argument between 3 retired auld fogies here. are 91's + coaches cleared to run over the tyne valley given the height of the tunnel between Haltwhistle and Bardon Mill? I ask this because i remember learning approx 4 years ago 91's+coaches not being allowed loco hauled through the tunnels at Sunderland North owing to the height/clearence between the panto/tunnel roof - and i could swear blind that the tunnel at Haltwhistle is roughly the same height. can anyone who has access to the required info solve this dilemma for me! Many Thanks Jock

10th August 2012, 22:14	#2
David10 Member Join Date: 25 May 2012 Location: Manchester Posts: 385	Was in one of the magazines a few months ago that 91/MkIV sets will be dragged over the Tyne Valley line during engineering works in September.

10th August 2012, 22:19	#3
DaveNewcastle admiring the bridges Fares Advisor Join Date: 21 Dec 2007 Location: Newcastle (unless I'm out) Posts: 4,689	It appears that the regular autumn diversions of East Coast services this year might be much briefer than in recent years - perhaps only on the weekend of 15th Sept. But please note that this is not reliable nor confirmed information. In recent years, these diversions have been achieved by deploying HST sets over the route, though I do seem to recall an exceptional dragged electric set 2, 3 or perhaps more years ago. (I'd be a lousy spotter!) Sorry that I can't add much more information.

11th August 2012, 13:10	#4
kjhskj75 Member Join Date: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 51	According to the sectional appendix Class 91 locos must have the pantograph locked down when passing through Whitchester tunnel, or else are limited to 15mph. The restrictions at Sunderland are probably due to the presence of DC wiring. In neither place is there any restriction on Mk4 coaches. They were built to a tilt-compatible profile, but never tilted, so they are quite narrow and don't have clearance problems.

12th August 2012, 00:16	#9
Jock Retired man of lesiure Member Join Date: 15 Jul 2011 Location: Auchtermuchty Posts: 56	Thank you for resolving this one

12th August 2012, 07:50	#10
jopsuk Established Member Join Date: 13 May 2008 Posts: 6,230	As an aside, if you're travelling Glasgow-London early in the morning that day, are insistent on going via the Tyne valley but aren't worried about the stock, you're better off taking the 0710 TPE to Carlisle and boarding the EC HST from Edinburgh there!

12th August 2012, 17:47	#11
bluenoxid Established Member Join Date: 9 Feb 2008 Posts: 1,298	Sorry, just for those of us with imaginations. When you say pantograph locked down, are you saying locked by a switch in the cab or locked as in bike chain and padlock (hey, these days nothing surprises me)