[Mutant Lemming]

I am amazed that most of the remaining municipals have survived so long. There was barely a month go by when their numbers started dwindling from 18 to 17 to 16 ... but the remaining 11 have fared well over the past few years. Are any under threat or do they all have a future ?

[MK Tom]

Reading Buses recently abandoned their operations in Newbury and Ipswich are facing strong competition from First in an all out war. Those are the only ones I'm worried about right now.

[WestCoast]

Blackpool Transport isn't going to be bought any time soon, chiefly because of the tramway which the council itself is so heavily involved in. I suspect the tramway in its old guise also put off the big transport groups over the years.

The bus services are profit making again, after cuts which have taken place over the past few years. Stagecoach only has a few routes which 'compete' and they haven't expanded in the 20+ years they've been in the area. Service gaps have either been ignored or filled by Lancs County Council contract routes.

Lothian Buses are also a strong operator with an excellent track record in terms of quality and resisting the 'big groups'. They defeated First in the 'bus wars' of the early '00s and recently took over some of First's abandoned services in East Lothian.

[robertclark125]

I'd also say Lothian is safe, given First's retrenchment in East lothian.

[Afcwimbledon2]

Originally Posted by MK Tom

Reading Buses recently abandoned their operations in Newbury and Ipswich are facing strong competition from First in an all out war. Those are the only ones I'm worried about right now.

I wouldn't worry about Ipswich Buses really. There is a general hatred of First round here and the attitude that they don't really care about us.

Ipswich Buses are certainly winning the bus war up here with lots of people waitimg for an ipswich bus not a first bus.

IPB have a better fleet and flat fares unlike firsts pile of crap and expensive fares.

All of firsts new routes drive past my work and they will have 1 or 2 on compared to a full ipb route.

[trentside]

Glad to hear that Ipswich are faring well despite the attacks from First.

I know there were rumours of a sale a couple of years ago, with Go-Ahead being touted as a likely buyer (given their recent expansion in East Anglia, this sounds plausible). The new livery certainly suggests Ipswich are seeking to reinvent their 'brand' for the future.

[Pyromaniac]

Originally Posted by Afcwimbledon2

IPB have a better fleet and flat fares unlike firsts pile of crap and expensive fares.

I find this odd reading, First in Ipswich actually have a newer fleet compared to Ipswich Buses and in fact should be gaining more 05 plated single deckers and double deckers from Norwich for the bus war. I suppose this reflects the general attitude towards First though.

[overthewater]

What about Thamesdown in Swindon, I bet a few are surprised Stagey not brought them out yet.

[Afcwimbledon2]

Originally Posted by trentside

Glad to hear that Ipswich are faring well despite the attacks from First.

I know there were rumours of a sale a couple of years ago, with Go-Ahead being touted as a likely buyer (given their recent expansion in East Anglia, this sounds plausible). The new livery certainly suggests Ipswich are seeking to reinvent their 'brand' for the future.

I'm pleased as well. Despite Labour saying it is bad for the area @Facepalm@

Originally Posted by Pyromaniac

I find this odd reading, First in Ipswich actually have a newer fleet compared to Ipswich Buses and in fact should be gaining more 05 plated single deckers and double deckers from Norwich for the bus war. I suppose this reflects the general attitude towards First though.

Well, First do not look after their fleet at all, alot of those 05 reg buses already have a lot of panel damage and are grotty inside. They clearly operate for profit - and have withdrawn routes already in Ipswich. And they seem incapable of not running something down - like the Park and Ride. Once operated by Double-decker buses (when with IPB) now it is barely used, and doesn't even stop in town any more.

Example:
when first gained P&R:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...n/photostream/
Now:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...in/photostream

On the other hand - IPB really look after their fleet, and whenever they obtain a new bus it gets refurbished and cleaned. Even their older X-reg stock is still in good condition. Yes it gets occasionally dirty, however they are cleaned relatively quickly.

Example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...n/photostream/

[Pyromaniac]

Originally Posted by Afcwimbledon2

Example:
when first gained P&R:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...n/photostream/
Now:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...in/photostream

You can't even begin compare those First vehicles there. The latter was one to sport an all over advert for Suffolk Police (I believe) and the "Now" picture you linked was after the advert had been removed but before it had been sent for a repaint into the new First livery. I would accept a bus in this condition rather than nothing at all plus, when do passengers ever look at the colour (or route number) of a bus anymore? I would find it amazing if you hadn't found the other two pictures links from the Ipswich Bus Page blog in which you would also find this one showing the "Now" picture bus in its brand new livery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...n/photostream/

Any issues with the P&R is not First's doing, the service is contracted by the local council hence it switching from Ipswich Buses to First. Either company would be made to run the service set down by the local authority.

[HSTEd]

Out of interest, is there any reason a council could not establish a new muni or buy out a local privately owned operator?

Is there any act of parliament or whatever against it?

[Afcwimbledon2]

Originally Posted by Pyromaniac

You can't even begin compare those First vehicles there. The latter was one to sport an all over advert for Suffolk Police (I believe) and the "Now" picture you linked was after the advert had been removed but before it had been sent for a repaint into the new First livery. I would accept a bus in this condition rather than nothing at all plus, when do passengers ever look at the colour (or route number) of a bus anymore? I would find it amazing if you hadn't found the other two pictures links from the Ipswich Bus Page blog in which you would also find this one showing the "Now" picture bus in its brand new livery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipswich...n/photostream/

Any issues with the P&R is not First's doing, the service is contracted by the local council hence it switching from Ipswich Buses to First. Either company would be made to run the service set down by the local authority.

I'm sorry but when is it ever good practice to have a bus out looking like that when it is running a service. Brand is everything, which First have no care for. That bus should have been painted straight away, not left hanging around in service for several weeks.

Also - do not have a go at me over pictures. That was a quick look on the best source for photos at present, and it was a case of thats what they used to all look like, now lets see what they have turned into. I wasn't arguing with you or being aggressive. It is not a very good way to welcome lurkers or any new member to a forum.

P&R is very much First's doing after they allowed their own additional routes that challenge Ipswich Buses to take the P&R routes bus stop at Tower Ramparts. Now it only stops at Majors Corner and one other location I can't remember.

[Pyromaniac]

Originally Posted by Afcwimbledon2

I'm sorry but when is it ever good practice to have a bus out looking like that when it is running a service. Brand is everything, which First have no care for. That bus should have been painted straight away, not left hanging around in service for several weeks.

Also - do not have a go at me over pictures. That was a quick look on the best source for photos at present, and it was a case of thats what they used to all look like, now lets see what they have turned into. I wasn't arguing with you or being aggressive. It is not a very good way to welcome lurkers or any new member to a forum.

P&R is very much First's doing after they allowed their own additional routes that challenge Ipswich Buses to take the P&R routes bus stop at Tower Ramparts. Now it only stops at Majors Corner and one other location I can't remember.

If it has a destination on it that is working and has seats, I see no problem. I'd rather that than wait for the next bus any day, in the case of the 63 it was operating in the picture I believe a 2 hour wait for the next one?

Not having a go at you, just correcting that the bus in question (and the other 3 with all over adverts) are all getting repainted soon and the state of brand you are trying to show isn't the norm. I assume the ones still used on the P&R are still in a good condition taking into account 3 and a half years-ish wear and tear and have been acceptable to my eyes when I have visited Ipswich.

P&R changes are due to both operators, quoting the Ipswich Park & Ride website:
"The changes are necessary and unavoidable because of the new and more frequent bus services in some parts of the town to be operated by both First in Suffolk & Norfolk and Ipswich Buses."

[Tiny Tim]

Originally Posted by HSTEd

Out of interest, is there any reason a council could not establish a new muni or buy out a local privately owned operator?

Is there any act of parliament or whatever against it?

There's no specific legislation preventing local authorities setting up bus services, or buying existing outfits. The problem lies in being able to demonstrate value for money to the council taxpayer. Existing municipals aren't usually difficult to defend, at least nowadays, but the capital investment for new buses and associated infrastructure is hard to justify, especially if First or Stagecoach are already running services. Government policy in the past did rather discriminate against the municipals, the theory being that the private sector could do a better job. It's a matter of opinion whether that's worked or not.

With deregulation here in Wiltshire our County Council fell over themselves to appoint a series of local private operators to run buses. The result, especially in the evenings and on the most rural services, was a tatty minibus belching black smoke and not accepting tickets from other contractors. The council were unconcerned by this, as none of their voters travelled by bus. Matters had to be taken more seriously when it was discovered that school buses were frequently defective to the point of being unsafe. Wiltshire Council now runs a small fleet of it's own buses on routes that are unprofitable for Big Bus PLC. Swindon Borough Council continues to operate Thamesdown Transport, mostly on urban services.

Wiltshire may be largely rural, but we're big enough to host our own 'Bus War'. We're treated to the sight of two buses (one First, one Faresaver) on each journey between Devizes and Bath, neither carrying enough passengers to pay for the diesel, let alone the driver's wages. The winning company will be the one prepared to lose the most money. Private enterprise at it's most ridiculous. God Bless Maggie. Meanwhile, most punters are mystified by the appearance of two buses at a time, and don't seem bothered as to which one they catch. I don't know if First and Faresaver accept each other's tickets, I haven't dared to buy a return since the war started.

[starrymarkb]

Originally Posted by HSTEd

Out of interest, is there any reason a council could not establish a new muni or buy out a local privately owned operator?

Is there any act of parliament or whatever against it?

I believe Kent did in the form of Kent Top Travel, the idea being to force down the bids for tendered services