[NY Yankee]

Pop diva Lady Gaga on Sunday cancelled her Indonesian concert with promoters saying the security threat was too serious after Islamic hardliners promised "chaos" if she entered the Muslim nation.

The promoters had indicated that a deal was being hammered out to tone down the June 3 concert in Jakarta, but the US star's management had stood firm, vowing there would be no compromise to appease religious conservatives.

"Lady Gaga's management has considered the situation minute to minute, and with threats if the concert goes ahead, Lady Gaga's side is calling off the concert," Minola Sebayang, lawyer for promoters Big Daddy, told reporters.

"This is not only about Lady Gaga's security, but extends to those who will be watching her."

The flamboyant performer, who has nearly 25 million followers on Twitter -- the highest number on the social networking site -- wrote just hours before the announcement was made: "There is nothing Holy about hatred."

After the announcement the show was off, thousands of her fans, who call themselves "little monsters", sent a flurry of Twitter messages to persuade her to go ahead with the concert.

Earlier this month Jakarta police refused approval for the show after the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) threatened violence if Lady Gaga performed, calling her a "devil's messenger" who wears only a "bra and panties".

Big Daddy president director Michael Rusli said it was "unfortunate" that the show, part of Lady Gaga's tour of Asia that drew protests from Christian groups in the Philippines and South Korea, had to be called off.

"For the past few days we have communicated with the government and Lady Gaga's side. The government has given support, but this is not about the permit," he said. "The cancellation is really due to concerns over security."

More than 50,000 tickets had been sold for the event at the Bung Karno Stadium, but FPI Jakarta chairman Habib Salim Alatas said the cancellation was "good news" for Muslims in Indonesia.

"FPI is grateful that she has decided not to come. Indonesians will be protected from sin brought about by this Mother Monster, the destroyer of morals," he told AFP.

"Lady Gaga fans, stop complaining. Repent and stop worshipping the devil. Do you want your lives taken away by God as infidels?"

The FPI claims seven million followers and has been known to raid pubs and clubs.

Conservative Religious Affairs Minister Suryadharma Ali welcomed the cancellation, saying other groups had also raised concerns.

"I strongly believe this cancellation will benefit the country. Indonesians need entertainment and art which have moral values," he told reporters.

Lady Gaga is scheduled to play three shows in Singapore this week. She was due to play in Jakarta after that, before flying to New Zealand and Australia, and then to Europe on her "Born This Way Ball" tour.

Indonesian fans had suggested that Big Daddy look for another venue outside the capital after Jakarta police refused to give approval, but Rusli said "this is a huge concert so it can't be moved elsewhere".

"Nowhere else in Indonesia can accommodate that many people", he said, insisting that the 26-year-old singer was "prepared to adapt to Asian culture".

The star's manager Troy Carter said in Singapore on Thursday that Lady Gaga would not tone down her concerts.

Disappointed student Agus Murdadi, 17, said he had been waiting for months to see his idol.

"I'm shocked. She's creative, not provocative. I bought a ticket because I want to see her dancing and singing 'Judas' in front of me," he told AFP.

"I'm going to tweet to her to tell her that she should just come and not worry. The police can take care of FPI. I hate the FPI."

Another fan, Muh Fadli Firdaus, tweeted on @FadliGermanotta: "Sorry for everything, we still love you."

Ninety percent of Indonesia's 240 million people identify themselves as Muslim, making it the world's largest Islamic-majority nation, but the vast majority practise a moderate form of the religion.

In the past, pop stars including Beyonce and The Pussycat Dolls have been allowed to perform in the country on condition they wore more conservative dress than usual.

http://news.yahoo.com/lady-gagas-ind...045833841.html

I hate Lady Gaga's music, but I feel that she has a right to perform in Indonesia. If you don't like her music, don't go to her concert. It's that simple. I'm so sick of the spread of Islamofascism. Women in Saudi Arabia and Iran are routinely subjugated. I don't think it's fair that people can use brute force to get what they want. I would like to point out that not all Muslims are bad-I have some Muslim friends in America.

[SS4]

Originally Posted by NY Yankee

I hate Lady Gaga's music, but I feel that she has a right to perform in Indonesia. If you don't like her music, don't go to her concert. It's that simple. I'm so sick of the spread of Islamofascism. Women in Saudi Arabia and Iran are routinely subjugated. I don't think it's fair that people can use brute force to get what they want. I would like to point out that not all Muslims are bad-I have some Muslim friends in America.

+1 apart from the last two words

Just another fine example of religious hatred

[MCR247]

Originally Posted by NY Yankee

I have some Muslim friends in America.

Oh wow. Hahahaha

[Paul Sidorczuk]

Originally Posted by NY Yankee

The promoters had indicated that a deal was being hammered out to tone down the June 3 concert in Jakarta, but the US star's management had stood firm, vowing there would be no compromise to appease religious conservatives.

You will find that the "religious conservatives" in certain Muslim states, such as Indonesia and Iran, wield far more power than is understood here. Is it not the case that "morality police" are part of everyday life in certain Muslim states.

The naivety of the the woman performer's own management team in making the part of their statement as quoted above is absolutely unbelievable.

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by Paul Sidorczuk

You will find that the "religious conservatives" in certain Muslim states, such as Indonesia and Iran, wield far more power than is understood here. Is it not the case that "morality police" are part of everyday life in certain Muslim states..

As a complete outsider who knows only a tiny bit about Indonesia from a friend who visited, I never have got the impression that Indonesia was anywhere near as oppressive as Iran and some of the Gulf states in terms of religious conservatism.

[SS4]

It was less state sponsored religious dogma* so much as the police could not guarantee the safety of the venue from religious terrorism


* not sure what word to use here

[DaveNewcastle]

I have nothing to say about Lady Gaga.

But I will say that there appears to be no end to the U.S.'s desire to demonise the fabricated illusion of a threat called 'Islam' with as much vigour as that State demonised the fabricated illusion of a threat called 'Communism' 50 or more years ago.

Where's Arthur Miller when the U.S. needs him?

But if it wasn't Communism or Islam, there will always be somewhere else to find a fabricated foe. Not that some Islamists seem to be able to resist the habit of demonising someone benign - and I suspect that's where this manufactured celebrity has found that she's a token in a cultural game of posturing.

[Paul Sidorczuk]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

As a complete outsider who knows only a tiny bit about Indonesia from a friend who visited, I never have got the impression that Indonesia was anywhere near as oppressive as Iran and some of the Gulf states in terms of religious conservatism.

Do you remember how the Muslim clerical fundamentalists viewed matter when so-called "Christian" East Timor decided to declare their Independence from Indonesia. History shows what occurred in the following months.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by DaveNewcastle

But if it wasn't Communism or Islam, there will always be somewhere else to find a fabricated foe. Not that some Islamists seem to be able to resist the habit of demonising someone benign - and I suspect that's where this manufactured celebrity has found that she's a token in a cultural game of posturing.

The American military suppliers and multi-nationals such as Haliburton have always thrived on the results of America's foreign policy.

Long gone indeed are the days of America keeping out of major conflicts, which kept them "on the sidelines" for long periods of World War 1 and World War 2.

[Wyvern]

Originally Posted by Paul Sidorczuk

Long gone indeed are the days of America keeping out of major conflicts, which kept them "on the sidelines" for long periods of World War 1 and World War 2.

It depends what's in it for them.

That's no different for anyone else however.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by Paul Sidorczuk

You will find that the "religious conservatives" in certain Muslim states, such as Indonesia and Iran, wield far more power than is understood here. Is it not the case that "morality police" are part of everyday life in certain Muslim states.

Dont forget its the Mullah's who administer the law. There is no separation of Church and State as there is in the West - something that some powerful groups are trying to do away with, except they are Christian fundamentalists. Just look at America.

[Paul Sidorczuk]

Originally Posted by Wyvern

Dont forget its the Mullah's who administer the law. There is no separation of Church and State as there is in the West - something that some powerful groups are trying to do away with, except they are Christian fundamentalists. Just look at America.

How would "morality police" be viewed over in the West....also, was there not at one time in the recent past, a demand for Shariah Law to run concurrently in certain Western states by their Muslim religious bodies.

Look at Nigeria if you want to see a nation in absolute turmoil which is half-Muslim (North) /half-Christian (South), where the proposed adoption of a nationwide Shariah Law was put forward by certain religious bodies and of the blood-letting that followed this.

Another African example of Muslim and Christian differentality was in Sudan, until Southern Sudan obtained its Independence, but the matter of the oilfields in the border region there has led to the current situation of uncertainty.

Matters that are normal in certain Muslim countries such as female genitalia mutilation. forced marriages, honour killings, are abhorrent to those in the West who never had such practices as an outright part of their way of life.

Dont forget, the Muslim religion has now been practised for nearly a millennium and a half. It is not just a recent happening.

[D6975]

Originally Posted by DaveNewcastle

But I will say that there appears to be no end to the U.S.'s desire to demonise the fabricated illusion of a threat called 'Islam' with as much vigour as that State demonised the CUSB drive called 'Communism' 50 or more years ago.

SORRY!!!

I would not call the events of 11 September or 7 July a 'fabricated illusion of a threat'

[ralphchadkirk]

Originally Posted by D6975

SORRY!!!

I would not call the events of 11 September or 7 July a 'fabricated illusion of a threat'

And was that the threat of the religion of Islam or some Islamic extremists?

Were the IRA the threat of the Irish or some Irish extremists?

Were the KKK a threat of Christianity or some Christian extremists?

There is a distinction between the religion and the extremism, something that those who spread Islamophobia fail to see.

[Paul Sidorczuk]

Originally Posted by ralphchadkirk

And was that the threat of the religion of Islam or some Islamic extremists? There is a distinction between the religion and the extremism, something that those who spread Islamophobia fail to see.

Since this thread is about Indonesia, I agree that there has been a reasonable amount of toleration to other religions, in the past.

However the group known as Ukuwah Islamiyah have been growing in strength since 1990, both in the rural areas and in the cities. Many of what we would term "moderate" Muslims in the population at large are now pressurised by a co-ordinated mission of ensuring that the past toleration was wrong and that the adherence to the Muslim faith was being somewhat diminished by a "growing laxness amongst their youth" who seemed to develop a liking for Westernised "culture".

The religious grouping most affected by Ukuwah Islamiyah are the American-based Protestant Christians who are regarded as American Christian fundamental religious sects, who were gaining much ground amongst some young Indonesians.

This is where the difference between the religion and the fundamentalists becomes to be "blurred".

[ralphchadkirk]

Religion is always in conflict with other religions. Why, I don't know, as all believe in fundamentally the same thing. Even the extremists have common ground with the cathedrals of the UK.

I see extremism as where people are pushing their own interpretation, and pushing the idea that only their interpretation can be correct. This forces its way into people's lives and starts governing how people think and act.

Extremism is wrong. Forcing one's views on someone else is wrong. Forcing someone to commit a terrorist act is wrong. However, extremism is just that. Extreme. It is not the general view that most in the religion take.

Islam is fundamentally a religion of peace. There are, of course, sections of the Koran and passages which appear to support extremist and non-liberatarian views but that is the same for all religions. It is important however that religious people recognise that the Bible, the Koran etc do not treat it as an 'instruction manual', but a metaphor of life at that period in history.

I take offence when people conflate Islam and Islamist Extremists. This is in much the same way as I would take offence if they conflated Christianity and Christian extremists. Extremists take the religion out of proportion; they are not representative of the religion at whole.

Extremism should be strongly discouraged. But religion should not. I am reminded at this point of the famous incident where a paediatrician suffered criminal damage because someone confused paedophiles with paediatricians. That seems to be to be remarkably similar to people confusing extremist Muslims with the vast majority of law abiding, peaceful Muslims.

[soil]

Originally Posted by Wyvern

Dont forget its the Mullah's who administer the law. There is no separation of Church and State as there is in the West - something that some powerful groups are trying to do away with, except they are Christian fundamentalists. Just look at America.

That's not really true.

Here in the West, we have Bishops making laws. The Church of England is part of the state.

In Indonesian the constitution is monotheistic including Islam, Christianity and others.

What happens in Indonesia is more that there has never been effective rule of law and the balance of power just swings between the army, religious populists, etc. In areas of Indonesia with lots of Muslims they tend to abuse their dominant position and Indonesia's ineffective system of government to wield power against non-Muslims and other things they don't like.