Class 458 fleet modification

jopsuk · 16th June 2012, 08:54

I've seen technical details of what is happening to the fleet, but no timetable for it?
Are the ex-460s already being worked on?
Presumably no current 458s will be taken out of service until the ex-460s are done- or at the very least, a pair is available. Ideally several pairs, to allow the 450HCs to go off to be restored to standard configuration

phil281 · 16th June 2012, 10:54

I was on the district line yesterday from Wimbeldon and noticed a class 460 sitting outside the back of the carriage shed at Wimbledon depot. Are they doing the modifications there?

455/8 · 16th June 2012, 10:57

from what I read this wasn't due to start until 2013-2014 because there are still a couple of platforms that I believe need finishing. Don't quote me on this but I think SWT will wait to get the 456's first, then takea couple of 458s out of service to have the modicications done, so when one is completed another will be sent in its place until the whole fellt is refit. Once the first one is done it'll be sent to wimbledon park or clapham so that crews can be trained on the modifications.

David10 · 16th June 2012, 11:42

As there will be 6 sets rebuilt entirely from 460s logically these will be done first to release some 458s. Think the work is being done at Wabtec in Doncaster. The job to reinstate first class should be fairly simple, the overhead lights and door frames were left in place, so just a case of reinstating the doors and swapping the seats. Presumably the standard class seats from the 450/5s will be used on the 456s or 460s.

Goldfish62 · 16th June 2012, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 455/8

from what I read this wasn't due to start until 2013-2014 because there are still a couple of platforms that I believe need finishing. Don't quote me on this but I think SWT will wait to get the 456's first, then takea couple of 458s out of service to have the modicications done, so when one is completed another will be sent in its place until the whole fellt is refit. Once the first one is done it'll be sent to wimbledon park or clapham so that crews can be trained on the modifications.

First pair of 458/5s will apparently be unveiled in Feb/March next year. These will be wholly ex-460s. These will then enable the first pair of 458s to be taken out of service for modification. All will be complete by Spring 2013, ahead of the 456s entering service.

The Windsor lines platform extensions are well on the way to completion by later this year - most are already done.

swt_passenger · 16th June 2012, 17:19

Just to add, that the most complete description of the programme was in February's Modern Railways, where it was said by Ian Walmsley of Porterbrook that:

Quote:

'The first year (ie 2012) is mainly design and material lead times, followed by the first two units appearing for extensive testing.'

That probably explains why nothing visible has started yet. But his projected completion date was mid 2014 - is your 'all will be complete by Spring 2013...' possibly a typo?

Goldfish62 · 17th June 2012, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt_passenger

Just to add, that the most complete description of the programme was in February's Modern Railways, where it was said by Ian Walmsley of Porterbrook that:

That probably explains why nothing visible has started yet. But his projected completion date was mid 2014 - is your 'all will be complete by Spring 2013...' possibly a typo?

Oops! Yes!

Uzair · 17th June 2012, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil281

I was on the district line yesterday from Wimbeldon and noticed a class 460 sitting outside the back of the carriage shed at Wimbledon depot. Are they doing the modifications there?

I saw that as well. I thought all modifications were being done at Eastleigh.

Also while passing through CLJ yesterday, last week, and two weeks ago, I saw Class 460's in service. I thought they were all stored?

Regarding the Windsor line platform extensions, if they are extended to 10 cars before the introduction of Class 458/5's, then surely the 450/5's that currently operate on the line can have all 8 car doors open at Sunnymeads and Datchet?

Ministry · 17th June 2012, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzair

Also while passing through CLJ yesterday, last week, and two weeks ago, I saw Class 460's in service. I thought they were all stored?

I saw 460 002 last night in service at Victoria and I believe 001 is still in play as well. The bodywork on 002 looked to be in a poor state, covered in dents and what looks like weird grey patches of paint.

fgwrich · 17th June 2012, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzair

I saw that as well. I thought all modifications were being done at Eastleigh.

Also while passing through CLJ yesterday, last week, and two weeks ago, I saw Class 460's in service. I thought they were all stored?

Regarding the Windsor line platform extensions, if they are extended to 10 cars before the introduction of Class 458/5's, then surely the 450/5's that currently operate on the line can have all 8 car doors open at Sunnymeads and Datchet?

Nope, Southerns 455s are however being refurbished in Eastleigh.

swt_passenger · 17th June 2012, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzair

Regarding the Windsor line platform extensions, if they are extended to 10 cars before the introduction of Class 458/5's, then surely the 450/5's that currently operate on the line can have all 8 car doors open at Sunnymeads and Datchet?

Sunnymeads and Datchet (and Wraysbury) aren't getting extensions, they're to carry on using ASDO. The currently completing platform extension project is mainly for the 'Windsor Side' suburban routes, but not the 'Windsor Branch', IYSWIM...

(The 458s (and the 450s) are going to have their unit deselect (UDS) systems modified to carriage level ASDO over the next couple of years, so the full usable length of any short platforms will be available.)

David10 · 17th June 2012, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulb

I saw 460 002 last night in service at Victoria and I believe 001 is still in play as well. The bodywork on 002 looked to be in a poor state, covered in dents and what looks like weird grey patches of paint.

460001/002 both remain in service as backups to the 442s, although they do see fairly regular use.

MCR247 · 17th June 2012, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt_passenger

Sunnymeads and Datchet (and Wraysbury) aren't getting extensions, they're to carry on using ASDO. The currently completing platform extension project is mainly for the 'Windsor Side' suburban routes, but not the 'Windsor Branch', IYSWIM...

(The 458s (and the 450s) are going to have their unit deselect (UDS) systems modified to carriage level ASDO over the next couple of years, so the full usable length of any short platforms will be available.)

Whats the difference between SDO and ASDO?

Lampshade · 17th June 2012, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCR247

Whats the difference between SDO and ASDO?

SDO is manual; the Guard/Driver selects which doors to open. ASDO is Automatic Selective Door Opening - the system knows which station it's at and opens the number of doors accordingly.

Robbies · 17th June 2012, 15:57

I travelled into London from Martins Heron yesterday and on walking through the trains past the disabled toilet I noticed the rear panel towards the sliding doors to the next carriage seems to be coming away at the bottom. So as part of the project to place the 460 carriages within the 458's is there going to be any work taking place within the 458's themselves to repair this sort of damage?

16th June 2012, 08:54	#1
jopsuk Established Member Join Date: 13 May 2008 Posts: 6,234	Class 458 fleet modification I've seen technical details of what is happening to the fleet, but no timetable for it? Are the ex-460s already being worked on? Presumably no current 458s will be taken out of service until the ex-460s are done- or at the very least, a pair is available. Ideally several pairs, to allow the 450HCs to go off to be restored to standard configuration

17th June 2012, 15:57	#15
Robbies Railway Enthusiast Member Join Date: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Berkshire Posts: 891	I travelled into London from Martins Heron yesterday and on walking through the trains past the disabled toilet I noticed the rear panel towards the sliding doors to the next carriage seems to be coming away at the bottom. So as part of the project to place the 460 carriages within the 458's is there going to be any work taking place within the 458's themselves to repair this sort of damage? __________________ Robbies

16th June 2012, 10:54	#2
phil281 Member Join Date: 9 Mar 2011 Posts: 87	I was on the district line yesterday from Wimbeldon and noticed a class 460 sitting outside the back of the carriage shed at Wimbledon depot. Are they doing the modifications there?

16th June 2012, 10:57	#3
455/8 Member Join Date: 15 Nov 2005 Posts: 145	from what I read this wasn't due to start until 2013-2014 because there are still a couple of platforms that I believe need finishing. Don't quote me on this but I think SWT will wait to get the 456's first, then takea couple of 458s out of service to have the modicications done, so when one is completed another will be sent in its place until the whole fellt is refit. Once the first one is done it'll be sent to wimbledon park or clapham so that crews can be trained on the modifications.

16th June 2012, 11:42	#4
David10 Member Join Date: 25 May 2012 Location: Manchester Posts: 385	As there will be 6 sets rebuilt entirely from 460s logically these will be done first to release some 458s. Think the work is being done at Wabtec in Doncaster. The job to reinstate first class should be fairly simple, the overhead lights and door frames were left in place, so just a case of reinstating the doors and swapping the seats. Presumably the standard class seats from the 450/5s will be used on the 456s or 460s.