[bailey65]

Nowadays most freight is intermodal in containers and a new super port is being created at liverpool though it is yet to be seen if it will be rail served.
If it is it will almost certainly be containerized which raises the question is most old style non container freight on the way out to be replaced mostly by containers between set terminals and ports.
It seems traditional freight trains other than tankers and aggregate traffic have become obsolete and freight to the fringes of the rail network has become almost non existant.
It is a shame old mixed goods to far flung outposts are almost gone but logistics and business in the 21st century are totally different to 100 years ago and more freight goes by road where bigger trucks are now allowed.

[DaveNewcastle]

Very regular coal trains are vital to the UK's electricity generation industry and are among the greatest users of many lines - and not a container in sight.

[HSTEd]

Originally Posted by DaveNewcastle

Very regular coal trains are vital to the UK's electricity generation industry and are among the greatest users of many lines - and not a container in sight.

At the moment anyway, there is no particular reason you could not move coal in containers (indeed many containerised coal loads have been moved in the UO), just that in the use there is little benefit in doing so with the widespread deployment of Merry Go Round operations.

As to the OPs question, yes.
Containerisation is the future, what with the deployment of "half height" containers for coal and aggregate traffic and the arrival of the "tanktainer" which will probably obliterate the remaining tanker markets.

The arrival of containerisation does not neccesarily mean the end of freight trains to far flung areas of the network however, it probably helps it by enabling smaller amounts of rolling stock to carry more (as the expensive bit below the solebar can be somewhere else while they fill or empty the cheap bit with whatever)

[142094]

Freight traffic has decreased somewhat since BR days, but one of things that has happened is that freight trains these days are travelling much further than they previously would have. Hauling bulk loads such as coal, aggregates and powder products will never be economically viable by road, so the only two options are either by ship or rail - and even if you choose ship, you'll still need rail to move in on land. The only reason I can think of for a future decrease in the tonnage of coal being transported is a change in the national energy policy, but in some cases where less coal is being used, such as due to the increased use of biofuels, the biofuels themselves are being hauled by rail.

[krus_aragon]

Containerised freight isn't something I see coming through Cardiff very often: it tends to be coal hoppers, slab or rolled steel on flat wagons, or fuel tanks. Although, on reflection, is steel shipped on the same wagons as containers, with the appropriate fixtures bolted on?

[GearJammer]

As a haulier of containers i think half the reason is the fact that the UK imports so much of the things it uses these days, i should imagine in the past when we had a thriving manufacturing industry in this country stuff would move around the country in box vans etc, now it comes from abroad it comes in containers.

[142094]

Originally Posted by krus_aragon

Containerised freight isn't something I see coming through Cardiff very often: it tends to be coal hoppers, slab or rolled steel on flat wagons, or fuel tanks. Although, on reflection, is steel shipped on the same wagons as containers, with the appropriate fixtures bolted on?

Depends on what type of steel it is - slabs seem to go on flat-bed wagons, whereas coil goes in covered wagons. Plus it is easier to load/unload compared to containers.

[LE Greys]

Well probably not for bulk goods: coal, stone, ore and so on. Similarly, ballast, rail, sleepers and other internal user traffic will probably stay as it is. It is far easier if something like that can be handled by hopper or grab than if it has to be piled into a container and out again. A 'hoptainer' might be possible, but would require a wagon with holes in the frame to cope with it. Alternatively, stack the thing vertically, fill it up, then remove and pour the coal out like a giant jug, but that sounds a bit silly.

[tsr]

Originally Posted by LE Greys

Alternatively, stack the thing vertically, fill it up, then remove and pour the coal out like a giant jug, but that sounds a bit silly.

If you're feeling like going to that much effort, you probably may as well use your "hoptainers" anyway, or continue according to today's preferred methods!

Back on the wider topic, I think that I agree that commercial traffic that is not supplying the rail industry itself is indeed far more likely to use containers, as is already demonstrated by the current trend and indeed now the precedent. The container sizing and overall system is, I believe, significantly easier and cheaper to manage. It's also accepted pretty much globally.

I do agree that shipping any goods internally or to railway industry customers should be assessed differently and other types of wagons do have their purposes in this environment.

[ChiefPlanner]

Railways came out of "break bulk" post 1968.Parcels in the 1980's.

[krus_aragon]

Originally Posted by 142094

Depends on what type of steel it is - slabs seem to go on flat-bed wagons, whereas coil goes in covered wagons. Plus it is easier to load/unload compared to containers.

The gist I was trying to get at was whether the flat wagons used for slabs (and some rolled steel) can also be used to convey containers: are they effectively the same base?

[LexyBoy]

Car trains are another frequent non-containerised one around here. Military vehicles and what I take to be steel from Wales are others. It's common for there to be no containers in Didcot yard in fact.

[jopsuk]

what has gone (mainly) are mixed-freight non-containerised- almost all freight is single-load, be that containers, tanks of one product, bulk goods, steel coils, cars etc. Engineering trains might be technically "mixed" but will be for or from a particular worksite mainly

[ex-railwayman]

Originally Posted by bailey65

Nowadays most freight is intermodal in containers and a new super port is being created at liverpool though it is yet to be seen if it will be rail served.
If it is it will almost certainly be containerized which raises the question is most old style non container freight on the way out to be replaced mostly by containers between set terminals and ports.
It seems traditional freight trains other than tankers and aggregate traffic have become obsolete and freight to the fringes of the rail network has become almost non existant.
It is a shame old mixed goods to far flung outposts are almost gone but logistics and business in the 21st century are totally different to 100 years ago and more freight goes by road where bigger trucks are now allowed.

Yeah, market forces have changed drastically in the last 25 years, the demise of domestic freightflows throughout the UK has seen the disappearance of so many old freight wagons from the network. The VDA vans that ran between Cadburys in Bournville, York and Bristol and other chocolate manufacturers such as Terrys and Frys have all been taken over by major conglomerates, such as Kraft, with production moving abroad (Poland), being a classic example.
Many BR freight wagons were constructed from the 1940's onwards, their shelf lives have now expired anyway and were all scrapped. Some of the MoD traffic is still in box vans, but, in general we don't see many older freight wagons anymore as they've either been scrapped, stored, or rebuilt for more modern traffic, ballast wagons immediately spring to mind, we now see the longer JTA and JNA Bogie Ballast/Spoil Wagons instead of the much older and smaller tuna/sturgeon/dolphin wagons.
Tank containers have been around since the early 70's, firstly adopted for the carriage of bulk liquids, the majority of them were 20ft, but, over the years 30ft and 40footers were designed, for cement and other powdered goods. Tanktainers are generally only 20ft and were initially for the movement of liquid hydrogen, though, future developments open the door to other products being carried.
Containerised traffic will always be popular as it's secure and it's universal, box and tank containers will be with us for decades to come, we also have the European freight wagons such as Shmmns, Flachwagen, Hbbins, etc, etc, and as our rail freight operation is now owned by DB Schenker they operate onto the continent and the Europeans can now send their products to the UK in door-to-door freight carriers built for the job.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

[Hydro]

Originally Posted by krus_aragon

The gist I was trying to get at was whether the flat wagons used for slabs (and some rolled steel) can also be used to convey containers: are they effectively the same base?

4/6E32(?) Scunthorpe to Dollands Moor runs with ISO flats with mountings for holding steel slabs, but I think that's the only one really. A lot of specialist steel wagons are still on the rails, bogie bolsters, BZA/BAA etc for slab and coil.

There's still plenty of freight around, not as much as there was or arguably should be, but it's there.