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Old 14th February 2015, 17:14   #1
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Default What's a "Crayonista", and why are they called that?

Title says it all, really:

What's a "Crayonista", and why are they called that?
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Old 14th February 2015, 17:24   #2
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I've been interpreting it as someone who colours in railway track maps, indicating which lines they've been on. The hardcore "track bashers" mark exactly which physical lines and crossovers they've got, too. I'm not actually sure if that is correct...
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Old 14th February 2015, 17:33   #3
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I believe the term 'crayonista' was started off by people commenting in the London Reconnections blog, to mean someone who thinks drawing a coloured line on a map is all it takes to build a new line, be it tube, LO or NR, or changing the colour of a line, implying it will instantly solve all possible problems. Especially when altering lines to orange...

Another pejorative they use fairly often is 'extendador', usually in the context of proposed extensions of the Waterloo and City line, especially when someone has just explained d all the valid reasons it cannot be done.
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Old 14th February 2015, 18:11   #4
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Crayonista, n. One who performs strategic transport planning with a box of coloured crayons, using them to draw lines on a map, without thinking through the implications.

For example, suggesting the linking of the Northern City Line services with Southeastern services by constructing a link between Moorgate to Cannon St.
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Old 14th February 2015, 19:02   #5
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A Crayonista for example might propose a line without fully thinking through the cost, terrain on the ground, actual user demand and market or just to satisfy a personal desire e.g. connecting their local town.
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Old 14th February 2015, 19:17   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Rick View Post
Crayonista, n. One who performs strategic transport planning with a box of coloured crayons, using them to draw lines on a map, without thinking through the implications.
Isn't that a description of London Overground planners? Albeit a box of crayons were all but the orange one are lost?

Sooner or later LO is going to need some easier way to differentiate individual routes. I mean, it does work now, but you could probably say that about a lot of the tube network too!
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Old 14th February 2015, 19:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmorris0844 View Post
Isn't that a description of London Overground planners? Albeit a box of crayons were all but the orange one are lost?

Sooner or later LO is going to need some easier way to differentiate individual routes. I mean, it does work now, but you could probably say that about a lot of the tube network too!
May perhaps lead to '50 Shades of Orange'
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Old 14th February 2015, 22:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swt_passenger View Post
I believe the term 'crayonista' was started off by people commenting in the London Reconnections blog, to mean someone who thinks drawing a coloured line on a map is all it takes to build a new line, be it tube, LO or NR, or changing the colour of a line, implying it will instantly solve all possible problems.
They even wrote a song about them.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...ar-crayonista/
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Old 15th February 2015, 07:33   #9
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Thank you very much!
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Old 15th February 2015, 14:33   #10
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The problem with the mods on the London Reconnections blog is that they're incredibly condescending when you so much as discuss the merits of anything without a professional-grade business case. Their argument for using the term "Crayonista" is that you haven't costed the proposals out etc. but they seem to forget their site is just an internet blog - not a government office. If all you're allowed to discuss is whatever Network rail deems worthy of actioning what's the point, really. I'm not sure I've ever seen a site so hostile to visitors to actually tell them to stop talking on old articles!

I actually had a exchange with them a while back from which I quote:
Quote:
The general problem I get is that far too much gets thrown in as "crayoning". It's, as you put it, a blog - and the comment section, at that. That's not a government whitepaper, not a quango report, not a private costed business case, it's a blog. Unless you're the sort of person who responds to your partner's suggestion one morning that you should go down to into town and do some shopping by expecting a fully-costed business case with a thorough feasibility study costing each transport mode (including the all-important do-nothing case!), then to expect so on here for every idea is just as unrealistic and silly. We are all people having a discussion about a shared interest, as if sitting down the pub. As part of that you might make a casual suggestion as a point of interest just to hear what other people think of it (i.e. the throw-away musings I mentioned previous), even if just to see it immediately shot down. That is very, very different to immediately jumping to providing diagrams, service patterns, etc for whatever random idea pops into your head down to street level. It's fine to go into depth if requested, but it should be as the discussion flows. I also do a lot of research to make sure what I suggest is not obviously silly. We can't all have access to exhaustive statistics and documentation, that's part of the joy of having these discussions as you can become more informed. Being told to shut up and sit in the corner quietly because the grown ups are talking is not constructive to education, and that to me is the danger of over-zealous moderation. You learn by asking questions. That is the general policy I adopt when discussing things.
...they also don't seem to distinguish between someone suggesting adding in a flyover (say, north of Wimbledon to get the District into platforms 9 & 10 and thence to Sutton in response to someone explicitly discussing the District Line at Wimbledon and the TL service to Sutton) and someone posting something like http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps28b26bdf.jpg (which even I would class as non-constructive!) - that lack of distinction is what bothers me.

They get some knowledgeable commenters, certainly, but I get the impression that one or two miserable old goats complained enough about people discussing things they weren't interested in that they instituted the current moderation policy. :/

I suspect they could please all parties by just having a flagging/voting system in place on the comments and a cookie controlling some Javascript that hides comments below a threshold they don't want to see. That way people could discuss things without bothering the old goats.
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Old 15th February 2015, 14:56   #11
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I think the term "crayonista" especially works for fantasy London Underground extensions due to the larger number of colours used on an Underground map!

I'm not sure what the equivalent term is for fantasy road ideas
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Old 15th February 2015, 15:26   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_jrt View Post
They get some knowledgeable commenters, certainly, but I get the impression that one or two miserable old goats complained enough about people discussing things they weren't interested in that they instituted the current moderation policy. :/
You don't have to be an 'old goat' to be frustrated by the same people forever going on flights of fancy that clearly don't make any practical or financial sense, the moderation on LR is a breath of fresh air IMO.
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Old 15th February 2015, 16:08   #13
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How long has the suffix "-ista" been applied in common usage in English and which was the first English word to carry this particular suffix?
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Old 15th February 2015, 16:30   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Sidorczuk View Post
How long has the suffix "-ista" been applied in common usage in English and which was the first English word to carry this particular suffix?
I assume it started with the Sandinistas, so when was that? 1980s?
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Old 15th February 2015, 16:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris125 View Post
You don't have to be an 'old goat' to be frustrated by the same people forever going on flights of fancy that clearly don't make any practical or financial sense, the moderation on LR is a breath of fresh air IMO.
Each to their own.

What I've noticed is the conversations increasingly end up going in circles or just dying off as the limited amount of "acceptable" dialogue is so small. Having a lively, active community is a good thing, IMHO.

Was reading the latest comments on the piece on the Bakerloo extension earlier where a first-time commentator had his first comment mostly removed for daring to offer his opinion on his local area in relation to the Bakerloo extension to which he responded he wouldn't even bother commenting again. That's clearly not a great way to treat your visitors, IMHO.

He described their behaviour as cliquey, which is a much better (read: polite) way of putting it. I just went with calling it a circle-jerk (#3, for the curious).

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