Grand Central Fares

schmoo_smith · 24th September 2007, 12:26

Hi there, I spoke to grand central today about the cost of a standard return from Sunderland to Kings Cross which is £69 for a walkup fare, ok fair enough good price but then i asked if that would be further discounted with my young persons railcard and I was told I couldnt and gave me no reason, he said a standard network ticket with the railcard would be cost more anyway, surely this cant be right? When he says "Standard Network Ticket" does he mean that GC have their own seperate tickets that cannot be used on other trains and vice versa? Is this to do with the fact that Grand Central are a open access operator? Can someone please explain what a open access operator means.

Sorry if the post seems long winded an lots of questions

cheers

Martin

24th September 2007, 12:36

Basically the £69 fare is a fare which is essentially a Sunderland to London Kings Cross route "GRAND CENTRAL ONLY" - ie, only permitting travel on Grand Central services. However, this is Grand Central's own fare and therefore they can offer what discount they want - and in this case it's no railcard discount.

A standard network ticket is an "any permitted" ticket allowing travel on any permitted route and operator. It is partially to do with open access operator operating (what a long phrase ...) but any operator can do it within reason.

Open access operator essentially means they're not franchised.

me123 · 24th September 2007, 12:46

It's similar to Advance Purchase tickets, that often have no discount attatched for any railcard becuase they are so cheap anyway.

schmoo_smith · 24th September 2007, 13:15

so can I use a "any permited route" ticket on GC?

24th September 2007, 13:42

Yes.

schmoo_smith · 24th September 2007, 14:43

smashing, cheers for that info tom.

**yorkie** · 28th September 2007, 08:35

Oh dear, GC are going to lose a lot of revenue!!

Anyone wanting to use GC with a railcard is going to buy a cheaper "Any Permitted" ticket, of which GC will only get a minority of the revenue, as the majority of it will go to the East Coast franchise holder. Good news for NatEx!!!

Sir_Clagalot · 28th September 2007, 09:00

will we? IF you decide at the drop of a hat that you want to go to London for the day, our walk on fare will be cheaper than the equivalent NX fare.

28th September 2007, 09:36

The fare is £69 from any station to London terminals, yes? A saver return from York to London Terminals on a young persons railcard is £49.55.

£62.90 from Sunderland...

djw1981 · 28th September 2007, 09:39

And the GNER is faster...

The GC website does not say whether they will offer RC discounts, but with under 25's, and over 60's having RC these days....

Sir_Clagalot · 28th September 2007, 11:42

Over 60s will get 50% off WITHOUT the need for a RC
From York certain GNERs arent quicker as they stop... where as GC are NS YRK-KGX

theblackwatch · 28th September 2007, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

The fare is £69 from any station to London terminals, yes? A saver return from York to London Terminals on a young persons railcard is £49.55.

£62.90 from Sunderland...

Perhaps there is a Saver restriction on some of Grand Central's services? (If so, I would expect them to follow GNER's time restrictions which would mean the 06.46 ex Sunderland and 16.50 return M-F will not allow use of Saver tickets.)

28th September 2007, 12:30

GC is not faster than many services...

Quote:

From York to LONDON departure at 08:20 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 8:00 arrival 9:54 traveltime 1:54 with 0 changes. T
York 8:00 Train 1A14 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 9:54

departure 8:10 arrival 10:10 traveltime 2:00 with 0 changes. T
York 8:10 Train 1E01 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 10:10

departure 8:22 arrival 10:32 traveltime 2:10 with 0 changes. T
York 8:22 Train 1A60 Grand Restau First Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 10:32

departure 8:36 arrival 10:40 traveltime 2:04 with 0 changes. T
York 8:36 Train 1E02 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 10:40

departure 8:49 arrival 11:13 traveltime 2:24 with 0 changes. T
York 8:49 Train 1A17 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 11:13

Only faster than one of the services there...

Quote:

From York to LONDON departure at 14:10 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 13:37 arrival 15:44 traveltime 2:07 with 0 changes. T
York 13:37 Train 1E11 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 15:44

departure 13:54 arrival 15:51 traveltime 1:57 with 0 changes. T
York 13:54 Train 1E12 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 15:51

departure 14:10 arrival 16:05 traveltime 1:55 with 0 changes. T
York 14:10 Train 1A62 Grand London
London Kings Cross 16:05

departure 14:26 arrival 16:46 traveltime 2:20 with 0 changes. T
York 14:26 Train 1E13 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 16:46

departure 14:53 arrival 16:57 traveltime 2:04 with 0 changes. T
York 14:53 Train 1E14 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 16:57

Fastest there ...

Quote:

From York to LONDON departure at 19:05 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 17:55 arrival 20:18 traveltime 2:23 with 0 changes. T
York 17:55 Train 1A42 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 20:18

departure 18:30 arrival 20:42 traveltime 2:12 with 0 changes. T
York 18:30 Train 1E21 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 20:42

departure 19:06 arrival 21:08 traveltime 2:02 with 0 changes. T
York 19:06 Train 1A63 Grand Restau First Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 21:08

departure 19:14 arrival 21:17 traveltime 2:03 with 0 changes. T
York 19:14 Train 1A45 Great Cold B Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 21:17

departure 19:35 arrival 21:44 traveltime 2:09 with 0 changes. T
York 19:35 Train 1E23 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential London Kings Cross
London Kings Cross 21:44

Again - fastest, but only by a minute...

Quote:

From LONDON to York departure at 08:00 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 7:00 arrival 8:55 traveltime 1:55 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 7:00 Train 1S05 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 8:55

departure 7:30 arrival 9:41 traveltime 2:11 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 7:30 Train 1N02 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Newcastle
York 9:41

departure 8:00 arrival 9:51 traveltime 1:51 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 8:00 Train 1S07 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 9:51

departure 8:04 arrival 10:07 traveltime 2:03 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 8:04 Train 1N25 Grand Restau First Reservations Essential Sunderland
York 10:07

departure 8:30 arrival 10:33 traveltime 2:03 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 8:30 Train 1N03 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Newcastle
York 10:33

Definately not the fastest there ... the 0800 departs 4 minutes earlier and gets into York 16 minutes earlier!

Quote:

From LONDON to York departure at 11:25 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 10:30 arrival 12:26 traveltime 1:56 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 10:30 Train 1S12 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Aberdeen
York 12:26

departure 11:00 arrival 12:51 traveltime 1:51 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 11:00 Train 1S13 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 12:51

departure 11:27 arrival 13:19 traveltime 1:52 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 11:27 Train 1N26 Grand Restau First Reservations Essential Sunderland
York 13:19

departure 11:30 arrival 13:39 traveltime 2:09 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 11:30 Train 1N06 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Newcastle
York 13:39

departure 12:00 arrival 14:00 traveltime 2:00 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 12:00 Train 1S15 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Inverness
York 14:00

The tables turn there with GC being the fastest ...

Quote:

From LONDON to York departure at 16:50 on 28 Sep Friday

departure 16:05 arrival 18:32 traveltime 2:27 with 1 changes. T T
London Kings Cross 16:05 Train 1H05 Hull T First Reserv Restricted Restaurant Service Hull
Selby 17:59
Selby 18:06 Train 2R70 Northe First Standa York
York 18:32

departure 16:30 arrival 18:34 traveltime 2:04 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 16:30 Train 1S24 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 18:34

departure 16:50 arrival 18:44 traveltime 1:54 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 16:50 Train 1N28 Grand Restau First Reservations Essential Sunderland
York 18:44

departure 17:00 arrival 18:51 traveltime 1:51 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 17:00 Train 1S25 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 18:51

departure 17:30 arrival 19:23 traveltime 1:53 with 0 changes. T
London Kings Cross 17:30 Train 1S26 Great Restau Trolle First and Standard Class Reservations Essential Edinburgh
York 19:23

GNER give tough competition on that one ... depart 10 mins later and arrive 7 mins after GC.

**yorkie** · 28th September 2007, 17:41

Expect GC to change their minds, and offer railcard discounts, when they realise that allY-P/FAM railcard holders buy Any Permitted tickets, of which GC will get only a small proportion of revenue.

24th September 2007, 12:26	#1
schmoo_smith Member Join Date: 22 Aug 2007 Location: Sunderland, Tyne & Wear Posts: 122	Grand Central Fares Hi there, I spoke to grand central today about the cost of a standard return from Sunderland to Kings Cross which is £69 for a walkup fare, ok fair enough good price but then i asked if that would be further discounted with my young persons railcard and I was told I couldnt and gave me no reason, he said a standard network ticket with the railcard would be cost more anyway, surely this cant be right? When he says "Standard Network Ticket" does he mean that GC have their own seperate tickets that cannot be used on other trains and vice versa? Is this to do with the fact that Grand Central are a open access operator? Can someone please explain what a open access operator means. Sorry if the post seems long winded an lots of questions cheers Martin

28th September 2007, 09:39	#10
djw1981 Established Member Join Date: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 2,644	And the GNER is faster... The GC website does not say whether they will offer RC discounts, but with under 25's, and over 60's having RC these days.... Last edited by djw1981; 28th September 2007 at 09:40.

24th September 2007, 12:36	#2
Tom Guest Posts: n/a	Basically the £69 fare is a fare which is essentially a Sunderland to London Kings Cross route "GRAND CENTRAL ONLY" - ie, only permitting travel on Grand Central services. However, this is Grand Central's own fare and therefore they can offer what discount they want - and in this case it's no railcard discount. A standard network ticket is an "any permitted" ticket allowing travel on any permitted route and operator. It is partially to do with open access operator operating (what a long phrase ...) but any operator can do it within reason. Open access operator essentially means they're not franchised.

24th September 2007, 12:46	#3
me123 Established Member Join Date: 9 Jul 2007 Location: Coatbridge Posts: 5,970	It's similar to Advance Purchase tickets, that often have no discount attatched for any railcard becuase they are so cheap anyway.

24th September 2007, 13:15	#4
schmoo_smith Member Join Date: 22 Aug 2007 Location: Sunderland, Tyne & Wear Posts: 122	so can I use a "any permited route" ticket on GC?

24th September 2007, 14:43	#6
schmoo_smith Member Join Date: 22 Aug 2007 Location: Sunderland, Tyne & Wear Posts: 122	smashing, cheers for that info tom.

28th September 2007, 08:35	#7
yorkie Fares Advisor Administrator Join Date: 6 Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 20,752	Oh dear, GC are going to lose a lot of revenue!! Anyone wanting to use GC with a railcard is going to buy a cheaper "Any Permitted" ticket, of which GC will only get a minority of the revenue, as the majority of it will go to the East Coast franchise holder. Good news for NatEx!!!

28th September 2007, 09:00	#8
Sir_Clagalot Member Join Date: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 818	will we? IF you decide at the drop of a hat that you want to go to London for the day, our walk on fare will be cheaper than the equivalent NX fare.

28th September 2007, 09:36	#9
Tom Guest Posts: n/a	The fare is £69 from any station to London terminals, yes? A saver return from York to London Terminals on a young persons railcard is £49.55. £62.90 from Sunderland...

28th September 2007, 11:42	#11
Sir_Clagalot Member Join Date: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 818	Over 60s will get 50% off WITHOUT the need for a RC From York certain GNERs arent quicker as they stop... where as GC are NS YRK-KGX

28th September 2007, 17:41	#14
yorkie Fares Advisor Administrator Join Date: 6 Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 20,752	Expect GC to change their minds, and offer railcard discounts, when they realise that allY-P/FAM railcard holders buy Any Permitted tickets, of which GC will get only a small proportion of revenue.