[DaveNewcastle]

The theft of cable is getting serious. In a Press Release from BTP yesterday, 2 men in the Rotherham area were sentenced to 2 months in prison, convicted of stealing NR cable last yearhttp://www.btp.presscentre.com/....

In NR's statements to the Press in Sept 07 they announced £1000 rewards for info leading to prosecution for cable theft in the WF (Wakefield) & TS (Teesside) postcode areas. The problem does seem to be concentrated in the North East.

"In 2006/07 cable theft directly caused more than 145 000 minutes of delay to trains in the North East area. The estimated cost to Network Rail of that crime was approximately £10 million - money which will have to be diverted from maintaining and improving the railway elsewhere.

From 1 April to 18 Aug 2007 there have been 269 incidents on the London North Eastern route. That has resulted in 68,500 minutess delay.
In the Wakefield area there have been 39 incidents in the same period - causing 24, 647 delay minutes.
In the Tees Valley area there have been 69 incidents in the same period - causing 11, 069 minutes delay.

The British Transport Police have recorded 1158 offences of cable theft since April 2006 in the North East area and have arrested more than 470 people.

The reward is up to £1,000 for information which leads to the arrest AND conviction of a person or persons for the theft of copper cable from the rail network. This reward is only available for crimes committed within the WF/TS postcode and is offered up to 28 February 2008. "

Presumably most of this thieving takes place when there is little or no traffic but surely we should all be looking out for this activity - its not just signalling cable on the ground but also from overhead catenery! It cripples the network and costs a lot.

[ChrisCooper]

The high price of metals like copper is meaning that theft is a big problem for everyone these days. Due to the uses of these materials, in many cases the knock on costs of the theft are much higher than the actual value of material stolen, with important wiring or piping being stolen. In other cases, very valuble items have been stolen and destroyed to gain their metal of much less value. Transport, Power Supply, Telecomunications, Construction and many more industries are suffering very badly for it. Quite a few people have been killed trying to steal high voltage copper cables. Even worse, much more serious incidents have been caused due to this issue, such as explosions or fires caused by theft or attempted theft of gas pipes. It's ironic that these days, metal prices are so high that metal value of 1p and 2p coins is actually higher than the monetary value, and they are made of "cheap" metals (were they pure copper it would be even worse).

[Sulzer25]

funnily enough, it happened to me coming back from Sheffield today (the third time it's happened) and all the signalling around Chesterfield is no more than 6 months old.

[Mojo]

You'll find that more modern cables are not made of copper but are fibre optic, the scrap value of which is minimal, I can only assume the thieves are chancing it and do not know what type of cables they are removing.

[Jordy]

The Chesterfield/Clay Cross area has been badly hit by this in recent months.

[DaveNewcastle]

Originally Posted by Mojo

You'll find that more modern cables are not made of copper but are fibre optic, the scrap value of which is minimal, I can only assume the thieves are chancing it and do not know what type of cables they are removing.

Yes up to a point, but it IS the copper that theives are targettting. In 2006 BTP reported dealing with 901 thefts of copper cables in the North East and relating it to the sharp global price rise in copper.

"For the 12 months up until the end of April (2007), more than 200 people were arrested by the British Transport Police for a crime which is growing with the rise in copper prices.
It is estimated the crime is at its highest level in this region.Andy Trotter, deputy chief constable of the British Transport police, said: "It is a growing problem.
You have only got to look at the rising copper price on the metal market and the theft of copper matches that rise almost absolutely."

Last May, Trotter said "Copper theft is a major problem in north-east England, accounting for nearly two-thirds of the delays related to metal thieves in the UK and wreaking havoc with the Northern Trains franchise."

There! an excuse for NT! and its official!

[Mojo]

I know they are targetting copper, but as I said it's not always clear on the difference.

[Sir_Clagalot]

Unless they mark the cables with "Fibre Optic" then they will always cut them just to see what the cable is made of.
Cut their hands off, that'll stop 'em doing it again! (or put 25kv through said cables... Same effect, they won't do it again!) I admit that both are a little drastic...

[Siggi155]

Here in Germany it is a big problem, too. I remember February last year, when there was stolen catenary and the rails of some unused tracks in Cornberg. By night some people did short-cicuit the catenary and pulled it down with a front loader. They were catched 2 days later at the german-polish border. On the truck was also found nearly 200m of rails. It was noticed by all drivers (electric train) cause the current has fallen to 0 apruptly at the whole line between Eichenberg and Bebra (in the mid of Germany). And in 2006 year the rails of an whole abandoned line near Marburg were stolen.

[b2danm]

Hi All. A newbie to this forum,

Just reading your comments on cables.

Fibre Optics are only used for certain types of signalling systems such as newer data transmission, Ansaldo, SSI etc. The rest of the cables esp. from Relay Rooms to signalling equipment uses multicore copper cable.

Fibre optic cables are easily distinguishable from copper cables as copper cables are more flexible. FO cables are rather stiff as you'd expect from the re-inforcement parts of the system to prevent the glass tubes from breaking. Copper cables are much less "plasticy" and more rubbery!

And if a cable thief is after a cable, then they'll just disc cut the entire cable route, choose the best and ignore the rest!

b2
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by Sir_Clagalot

Unless they mark the cables with "Fibre Optic" then they will always cut them just to see what the cable is made of.
Cut their hands off, that'll stop 'em doing it again! (or put 25kv through said cables... Same effect, they won't do it again!) I admit that both are a little drastic...

We run 650v AC Through the main power cables if thats drastic enough. There have been reports of scorched hands/skin left on them!

[Juniper Driver]

Didn't this happen down the Portsmouth Road last week?

[Sulzer25]

At the Nottingham Transport Heritage centre where I volunteer, in our staff meeting we said that the problem has got so bad that they are having to turn the yard into a secure compound, costing the company some £45,000. We had a distant signal arm stolen, and the police see it as petty crime that is not important. Well guess what boys in blue, it is a crime that prevents safe-running of the railway, which can be life-threatening. We also have lots of other vandalism too.

[Kneedown]

Originally Posted by 156401

and all the signalling around Chesterfield is no more than 6 months old.

The new signalling doesn't start until Coney Green-Morton on the Erewash valley, even so the new fibre optic cables were stolen only a week or so after the new signalling was commissioned. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the Pikeys tried to sell it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by DaveNewcastle

The theft of cable is getting serious. In a Press Release from BTP yesterday, 2 men in the Rotherham area were sentenced to 2 months in prison, convicted of stealing NR cable last year

No wonder it's such a problem when pathetic sentences like that are being dished out!
I say 5 years, being whipped to within an inch of their lives every day, and all the offending Pikey's assets sequestrated as compensation leaving the whole family destitute!

And yes, i'm serious!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by DaveNewcastle

its not just signalling cable on the ground but also from overhead catenery!

Now THAT could be entertaining to watch!

[adamp]

It did get a mention on that Tonight With Trevor McDonald investigation last night about basically everything metal getting nicked (bus shelters, man hole covers, cable from railways etc..) which are obviously stolen, yet the scrap yards still take them in.

Its getting absolutely stupid and pathetic, churches cant even have lead on their roofs without it being robbed!

[Metroland]

Time to regulate scrapyards and secure the borders.

Any scrapyards taking stolen equipment on a persistent basis should be shut down and their owners jailed.