[yorkie]

In the Government's White Paper, Delivering a Sustainable Railway (translation: a load of spin. In other words; waffle that makes bad things sound good), they claim some rather bold comments:-

"The passenger strategy therefore has the following main strands...
a fares structure that people can understand and which builds passenger confidence..."

They say that passengers "do not always feel that confidence" and one reason is that "train operators have made very steep increases to some unregulated fares shortly after winning a franchise", so they propose some "simplification".

XC are preparing for this "simplification" by changing the existing fare restrictions next month, in advance of the tickets being re-named in September.

What have XC done? Well, they have made very steep increases to some unregulated fares shortly after winning a franchise. Surprise, surprise. You can read all about it in Newsrail Express (the document that they do not want you to see - it's not meant to be publicly viewable). Wait a minute, what they have done is EXACTLY what the government says does not give people confidence. Yet they have done this to prepare for the government's simplification.

So, we are told that we should have simpler fares, but in order to make them simpler we have to endure:-
* Abolition of Saver Half fares
* Restrictions on currently unrestricted Savers
* Abolition of Railcard discounted Savers being valid on any train
* CDRs no longer being valid in the evening peak (how on earth does this make travel "simpler" for customers?!)

So, the question is, after reading the Government waffle saying how good and fluffy and wonderful everything is, and then reading the reality in Newsrail Express, do you think the fare rises are good or bad? Have your say!

The (un)fare changes are analysed in more detail in this thread. Please use that thread to discuss the fare changes. I have posted the poll here seperately to get your views on it.

[1D53]

Its increasingly starting to look like a stitchup and a con to me.

I suppose we'll have to see...

[me123]

I'm undecided. There's a lot of bad things here, especially regarding savers, that really can't make life simpler. However, as a railcard holder, I look forward to reduced AP travel. Railcard holders come out on top after this, and in that respect I look forward to the new fares, however the complexity of the current system baffles me. Unless I'm missing something, the new system will take some getting used to!

I'm reserving my overall opinion until I experience this first hand.

[theblackwatch]

I'm undecided - from what I've seen with XC, it isn't fairer, particularly if all other TOCs follow the restriction regarding CDRs in the evening peak. (And them doing so is the only way I can see this being simple - if XC priced CDRs are not valid at 16.00, but NXEC priced ones are, this can hardly be classed as simplified.) However, I wouldn't want to make a full judgement until all the facts are known.

[Metroland]

I don’t really see what the problem is unless you are someone that wants to get lots of ‘mileage’. The new structure makes perfect sense to me:

Super off peak – Lots of empty trains, so cheap tickets can be sold to prevent shipping of thin air.

Off peak – Moderately full trains, some scope to fill empty seats.

Anytime – which makes more sense than open, which is just a silly word. This is when the trains are packed, and clearly this is when the most money is made. What was the quote 1/4 of revenue and only 1 in 10 tickets, with 80% of tickets being discount and have dropped in real terms over the last 10years?

And Advance, lots more scope to fill empty seats.

The main grip seems to be the restriction in savers (now off peak/Super off peak). Well I always thought it was off you could return during the peak on one, it doesn’t make any sort of commercial sense.

Personally I’d like to see rails pathetic 33% seat load raise be raised to at least 50%, which would mean a lot less subsidy (not that I’m bothered about it, but some people are) and cheaper tickets for those than can be flexible.

Maybe I'm missing something, but either way the current system is way too complicated, and hardly anyone understands it, even the staff.

[paul1609]

Shock Horror,
Paul1609 agrees entirely with Metroland.

[Sulzer25]

undecided. Doubt that the government will make it simpler - they don't understand how railways work. There was even the suggestion of making all trains like planes, where you can't 'turn up and go' and have to book in advance. THAT IS THE MOST STUPID IDEA I'VE EVER HEARD!!

[devon_metro]

Are ALL CDRs going to not be valid in evening peak? If so that is outrageous!

[Great Eastern]

I can see the logic in trying to make the fare simplier, but it also leads to the TOCs using it as another chance to add more restrictions to the tickets and yet another fares increase.

As for what Cross Country are doing - they are only brining their restrictions in line with other TOCs

[yorkie]

Originally Posted by Liam

Are ALL CDRs going to not be valid in evening peak? If so that is outrageous!

Well there are only really two possibilities

1) ALL TOCs are going to ban CDRs in the evening peak. This would be consistent with "simplification"

2) Some are going to ban them and some aren't, as at present. In which case it's an absolute joke. CDR from Derby to Burton-on-Trent? not valid evening peak. CDR from Derby-Chesterfield (using a XC train)? valid, as the fare is set by EMT.

Originally Posted by Great Eastern

As for what Cross Country are doing - they are only brining their restrictions in line with other TOCs

Hardly.

They only parallel SWT between Basingstoke and Bournemouth. All the other TOCs who have this restriction don't share routes with XC. CDRs out of King's Cross only go as far as Newark, and CDRs are banned Paddington to Reading but only on fast trains and XC no longer go into Paddington, they don't use the MML south of Derby and CDRs out of St Pancras only extend as far as Bedford, and FSR's Glasgow-Edinburgh is not really comparable as it's a different route they take. They don't go near the Great Eastern. No other TOCs (that I can think of) have a ban on CDRs in the evening peak!

On the routes out of King's Cross, St Pancras, Liverpool St, etc, the restrictions only apply if leaving the London area in the evening peak. XC propose to ban CDRs entirely for any direction. That's not "in line with other TOCs". e.g. you can use a PBO-GRA CDR in the evening peak even on trains that are peak out of KGX which are barred to KGX-GRA CDR holders. XC would not allow that for passengers doing, say, PBO to LEI, even though the "peak" flow is the other direction.

[Great Eastern]

Originally Posted by yorkie

That's not "in line with other TOCs".

Give it a few more years and it will be the norm on all non PTE/Welsh/Scottish TOCs

[me123]

Originally Posted by yorkie

No other TOCs (that I can think of) have a ban on CDRs in the evening peak!

IIRC, FSR don't let you use them on peak time Shuttle services between EDB and GLQ, but they are open everywhere else.

[yorkie]

Originally Posted by me123

IIRC, FSR don't let you use them on peak time Shuttle services between EDB and GLQ, but they are open everywhere else.

True, I did mention that they have restrictions on Glasgow-Edinburgh but it's still not comparable with VXC as VXC don't operate that route into Queen Street.

There's only one place where they are "in line" and that's Bournemouth-Brockenburst and it's actually irrelevant anyway as the restriction is not in place for local journeys on that route, only journeys from London.

So there's no location where you can say that a TOC has evening peak restrictions in place for a route that VXC run along where the restrictions are going to be "in line" with that other TOC, really.

So the idea of being "in line" with other TOCs is a load of spin that is totally meaningless and has no basis in reality.

[me123]

Originally Posted by yorkie

True, I did mention that they have restrictions on Glasgow-Edinburgh but it's still not comparable with VXC as VXC don't operate that route into Queen Street.

Sorry, I should learn to read

[class 313]

FCC Have a ban on CDRs in the morning and evening peak IIRC.