Simplification at Lockerbie- What a Joke

glynn80 · 22nd August 2008, 22:26

In the ticket queue at Lockerbie station the person in front asks for a ticket to Preston on the 07:40 dep, they are sold an Off-Peak Return which is actually valid at any time.

Then the second person in the queue asks for a return to Motherwell on the 07:43 dep and I suppose I'll need an Anytime "Day" Return £14.90, the ticket clerk refuses as the Anytime Day is not valid until 0930!!, they are then sold an Anytime Return for £23.00, £8.10 extra.

This is an example of how stupid Simplification is, there is actually an Anytime Day Return that IS NOT valid at ANYTIME, it is RESTRICTED with validity B1!! And from the same station and Off Peak Return that IS valid at ANYTIME.

me123 · 22nd August 2008, 22:38

It certainly is more complicated than it was; just proof I guess that simpllification does have a hidden meaning. Although, to be fair, Lockerbie is a bit of a strange station as passengers are allowed to travel south from Glasgow/Edinburgh and change back at Carlisle.

**yorkie** · 22nd August 2008, 22:43

That's funny!

Clearly ATOC lied.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...ple_fares.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOC

Anytime fares are fully flexible tickets, with no restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need complete flexibility.

You can buy Anytime tickets any time before you travel and you can use your ticket to travel on any train.

They are actually restricted in some cases, apparently!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOC

Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy.

Oh yeah? the 0700 EDB-KGX (first "off peak" train) is really "less busy" than the 0550 EDB-KGX? Err, whatever! On the ECML the first trains to allow "Off Peak" (formerly Saver) tickets are actually busier. Only a few business people can afford the peak time trains, I have got AP tickets on the 08:00 from York and had half a coach to myself before. On the 09:35 from York I am lucky to get a seat! Further proof that ATOC are living in a world of their own!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOC

Offering good value for money, these tickets may require you to travel at specific times of day, days of the week or on a specific route.

But some Off Peak fares are valid at any time!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOC

Where there is more than one Off-Peak fare for a journey, the cheaper fare with more restrictions will be called Super Off-Peak..

What about York-Donny? Off Peak is valid at any time (technically it is not valid between approx 1am and approx 4am when no trains run! haha) but there is more than one off peak fare, it is called an Off Peak day and is not valid until 10am, it is NOT called Super Off Peak. The addition of "Day" makes it valid after 10am instead of after 4am!!!!

I could go on....!!

adamp · 22nd August 2008, 22:52

This new system thing is bloody confusing, I was getting used to the old one. Now I havent a clue what im buying, or wether its valid after this time or that.
I heard apparently 'we' asked for the new system?
Really?

Richard Armstrong · 22nd August 2008, 22:53

About as simple as 348579345345 x 8935923849234723 without the use of a calculator. 8)

glynn80 · 22nd August 2008, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by me123

It certainly is more complicated than it was; just proof I guess that simpllification does have a hidden meaning. Although, to be fair, Lockerbie is a bit of a strange station as passengers are allowed to travel south from Glasgow/Edinburgh and change back at Carlisle.

The main issue is basically there is a fare named Anytime Day Return that is not valid at Anytime which is just ridiculous.

**yorkie** · 22nd August 2008, 23:01

Also look at the attached file showing fares from Lockerbie to Glasgow (singles).

See how the Anytime single just blends in to the mix of Advance singles, would be easy to 'simply' miss it! Oh, and Anytime Day is £1.30 more expensive than Anytime!

??: Both are only valid for a day though! Note that I have highlighted these walk-on fares with a red box. Without that, it is very easy to miss these walk-on fares.

Jonfun · 22nd August 2008, 23:07

In my layman's point of view, back before "Simplification" we had a nice range of tickets, we had a fair idea of each tickets restriction, so we knew that there would be a good ticket for us somewhere. It wasn't actually that confusing, everyone got by.

I mean, there I was thinking that a ticket called 'Anytime' would actually be valid at any time! The only word to describe this shakeup is 'Farce'. If anything, This has made things drastically worse - after reading lots of posts, peoples opinions et cetera, I'm more confused than i was before!

rail-britain · 23rd August 2008, 09:39

Isn't part of the current confusion due to the old fares now carrying the new names, but once 07 September arrives that problem no longer exists
I noticed this at Glasgow Central last night when a customer was being sold a Saver ticket and the agent had to cancel and reprint the ticket several times as it kept printing out "AnyTime Off Peak", with growls of "No, that's not what I put in"
The agent that was serving myself then went across and confirmed that what had been printed was indeed correct, providing the customer travel before 07 September AND make their return journey portion before that date as well

It was almost the same when SuperSaver was done away with several years
Some sales agents understood that SuperSaver could still be sold, whilst others point blank refused or didn't know

However, it is strange that an Advance Single is MORE expensive than the Anytime Single
Giving a choice, of travelling on any train that day or one specific train for slightly more...

Also, don't forget that TOCs are still free to provide their own range of fares where passengers travel exclusively with them, and I suspect we will see more of this next year, especially between Glasgow and London, and Edinburgh and Birmingham
Stagecoach (Virgin Trains) already do it through their megatrains.com website

**yorkie** · 23rd August 2008, 12:36

evolvi has all the new fares and names - just put a date on or after 08 september.

thetrainline is getting confused but Evolvi isn't. any errors are the fault of the TOCs doing silly things not evolvi getting confused.

furryfeet · 23rd August 2008, 14:03

what makes you think that there will me more TOC specific fares next year ?

what is different next year from this year ?

Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly since the cross-country franchise was altered last November, so i fail to see where the competition is going to come from. When it was virgin WC versus virgin XC on this route there was an element of competition in the fares, certainly for apex, which made tickets more reasonably priced than they are now.

glynn80 · 23rd August 2008, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by furryfeet

what makes you think that there will me more TOC specific fares next year ?

what is different next year from this year ?

Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly since the cross-country franchise was altered last November, so i fail to see where the competition is going to come from. When it was virgin WC versus virgin XC on this route there was an element of competition in the fares, certainly for apex, which made tickets more reasonably priced than they are now.

Virgin WC were competing with their own sister company Virgin XC, not too sure about that seeing as they both used the Virgin Value Advance model.

They were trying to compete mainly with GNER/ First Scotrail to London as they had a monopoly really on the West Coast route to Scotland so no need to artificially decrease their fares, to compete with one another on that route as they were already getting the majority of traffic.

They are much more likely now to be in competition with First TPE though, who now operate on the West Coast route to Scotland also, so it is actually the situation currently there is real competition for Virgin (if you can call it that with TPE's journey times and rolling stock).

nedchester · 23rd August 2008, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkie

evolvi has all the new fares and names - just put a date on or after 08 september.

thetrainline is getting confused but Evolvi isn't. any errors are the fault of the TOCs doing silly things not evolvi getting confused.

Evolvi's great but it always says this as you sign in

"It is an offence to access the programs and data held on this system unless you have been granted access and provided with an official password and user ID. If you are not an authorised user disconnect immediately."

What criminal offence are you committing if you want to find out the price of a train ticket?????

Pumbaa · 23rd August 2008, 15:26

You wouldn't happen to have saved London - Bishopbriggs as a favourite journey would you Yorkie??

Yes simplification is a call for unfair fare rises!

glynn80 · 23rd August 2008, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedchester

Evolvi's great but it always says this as you sign in

"It is an offence to access the programs and data held on this system unless you have been granted access and provided with an official password and user ID. If you are not an authorised user disconnect immediately."

What criminal offence are you committing if you want to find out the price of a train ticket?????

There is actually a test site for prospective customers with all the information the real site has except it doesn't book tickets at the end, if you want the details PM me.

22nd August 2008, 22:26	#1
glynn80 UK Rail Ticketing Maestro Established Member Join Date: 31 May 2008 Posts: 1,656	Simplification at Lockerbie- What a Joke In the ticket queue at Lockerbie station the person in front asks for a ticket to Preston on the 07:40 dep, they are sold an Off-Peak Return which is actually valid at any time. Then the second person in the queue asks for a return to Motherwell on the 07:43 dep and I suppose I'll need an Anytime "Day" Return £14.90, the ticket clerk refuses as the Anytime Day is not valid until 0930!!, they are then sold an Anytime Return for £23.00, £8.10 extra. This is an example of how stupid Simplification is, there is actually an Anytime Day Return that IS NOT valid at ANYTIME, it is RESTRICTED with validity B1!! And from the same station and Off Peak Return that IS valid at ANYTIME.

22nd August 2008, 22:52	#4
adamp Member Join Date: 5 Oct 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 691	This new system thing is bloody confusing, I was getting used to the old one. Now I havent a clue what im buying, or wether its valid after this time or that. I heard apparently 'we' asked for the new system? Really? __________________ GBRailwayWorld http://gbrailwayworld.co.uk \| http://youtube.com/gbrailwayworld

22nd August 2008, 22:53	#5
Richard Armstrong Established Member Join Date: 8 Jun 2005 Location: Harpenden, Hertfordshire Posts: 1,902	About as simple as 348579345345 x 8935923849234723 without the use of a calculator. 8) __________________ Richard Photo site \| Video site

22nd August 2008, 23:07	#8
Jonfun "Jezza" Member Join Date: 16 Mar 2007 Location: Loughborough Posts: 199	In my layman's point of view, back before "Simplification" we had a nice range of tickets, we had a fair idea of each tickets restriction, so we knew that there would be a good ticket for us somewhere. It wasn't actually that confusing, everyone got by. I mean, there I was thinking that a ticket called 'Anytime' would actually be valid at any time! The only word to describe this shakeup is 'Farce'. If anything, This has made things drastically worse - after reading lots of posts, peoples opinions et cetera, I'm more confused than i was before! __________________ Jezzzaa. My Flickr Photostream

22nd August 2008, 22:38	#2
me123 Established Member Join Date: 9 Jul 2007 Location: Coatbridge Posts: 5,970	It certainly is more complicated than it was; just proof I guess that simpllification does have a hidden meaning. Although, to be fair, Lockerbie is a bit of a strange station as passengers are allowed to travel south from Glasgow/Edinburgh and change back at Carlisle.

23rd August 2008, 09:39	#9
rail-britain On Moderation Join Date: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 4,105	Isn't part of the current confusion due to the old fares now carrying the new names, but once 07 September arrives that problem no longer exists I noticed this at Glasgow Central last night when a customer was being sold a Saver ticket and the agent had to cancel and reprint the ticket several times as it kept printing out "AnyTime Off Peak", with growls of "No, that's not what I put in" The agent that was serving myself then went across and confirmed that what had been printed was indeed correct, providing the customer travel before 07 September AND make their return journey portion before that date as well It was almost the same when SuperSaver was done away with several years Some sales agents understood that SuperSaver could still be sold, whilst others point blank refused or didn't know However, it is strange that an Advance Single is MORE expensive than the Anytime Single Giving a choice, of travelling on any train that day or one specific train for slightly more... Also, don't forget that TOCs are still free to provide their own range of fares where passengers travel exclusively with them, and I suspect we will see more of this next year, especially between Glasgow and London, and Edinburgh and Birmingham Stagecoach (Virgin Trains) already do it through their megatrains.com website

23rd August 2008, 12:36	#10
yorkie Fares Advisor Administrator Join Date: 6 Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 20,739	evolvi has all the new fares and names - just put a date on or after 08 september. thetrainline is getting confused but Evolvi isn't. any errors are the fault of the TOCs doing silly things not evolvi getting confused.

23rd August 2008, 14:03	#11
furryfeet Member Join Date: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 418	what makes you think that there will me more TOC specific fares next year ? what is different next year from this year ? Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly since the cross-country franchise was altered last November, so i fail to see where the competition is going to come from. When it was virgin WC versus virgin XC on this route there was an element of competition in the fares, certainly for apex, which made tickets more reasonably priced than they are now.

23rd August 2008, 15:26	#14
Pumbaa Established Member Join Date: 19 Feb 2008 Location: North Posts: 4,288	You wouldn't happen to have saved London - Bishopbriggs as a favourite journey would you Yorkie?? Yes simplification is a call for unfair fare rises!