Who are YOU backing? - Page 3

**Mojo** · 1st November 2005, 20:41

If you look at all that wasted space, which seems to come with all these electrical casings and crumple zones, you can see why there's so much.

Andrew · 2nd November 2005, 15:51

The Greater Western franchise specification is fairly tight. Together with the GW RUS they can pretty much tell anyone what will happen. The company running it will make, IMO, not much difference. So I'd say go back to BR, mainly because there are arguements against First (performance), National Express (one) and Stagecoach (buses, livery, stupid name "Brunel Trains" wasn't it?).

Sprinter · 2nd November 2005, 17:00

The Greater Western franchise in my opinion should be retained by First, but I am surprised that bid hasn't gone to teh Competition Commission to be honest, seeing as First also run many bus services in the South West of England, giving them a majority in this area.

Stagecoach would stand a good chance at it too, but again with Stagecopach also operating Virgin and South West trains, this may be a cuase for concern also, especially around Exeter.

devon_metro · 2nd November 2005, 17:07

TBH all of this hassle is pointless; the railways would run far better if managed by one larger company! maybe if BR was brought back we might see some 'real' trains returning to our railways.

I say bring back BR!

2nd November 2005, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubechallenger

British Rail?

So you want BR eh?

devon_metro · 2nd November 2005, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubechallenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubechallenger

British Rail?

So you want BR eh?

Certainly do! but i suppose this is unlikely to happen! Other wise i'll stick to First- cant beat a good old HST

**Mojo** · 2nd November 2005, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprinter

The Greater Western franchise in my opinion should be retained by First, but I am surprised that bid hasn't gone to teh Competition Commission to be honest, seeing as First also run many bus services in the South West of England, giving them a majority in this area.

It has, but then again, First aren't exactly successful at "running" their bus network.

Galvanize · 2nd November 2005, 19:15

First for me!

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

**Mojo** · 2nd November 2005, 19:38

a) How do you know that?
b) Most passengers, following from introduction of other new units, as well as the image that the railway needs to get, would rather travel on a /new/ train rather than an /older/ one.

I don't want NEx to win because of the mess with one railway, as well as their poor financial record & lack of willingness to provide major investment (c2c excepted)

**yorkie** · 2nd November 2005, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galvanize

First for me!

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

If that's true then I'm backing First.

The Meridian/Voyager-type trains offer much less seats, are heavier, use more fuel (a great idea in the current climate - NOT!), and cause more track damage, than HSTs.

Also they tend to have less comfortable seats and less window seats (although that varies).

At the moment my preferred method of travel to Cornwall would be GNER + FGW, however if FGW was Meridian type trains I may as well go all the way on a Voyager.

**yorkie** · 2nd November 2005, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

a) How do you know that?
b) Most passengers, following from introduction of other new units, as well as the image that the railway needs to get, would rather travel on a /new/ train rather than an /older/ one.

If that's true why is it when I was with a group of non-rail enthusiasts and there were 2 trains at a station going to the same place, they chose the faster Mk1 train rather than the new train sitting in the adjacent platform?

The new train got overtaken and took about 5 minutes longer, but they chose the older train.

On the way back they took the newer train simply because, although the older train was quicker there was no overtaking.

In my experience the most important aspects of travel for 'normal' passengers are for their train to be reasonably fast, on time, and to get a seat.

Anyway, back to HSTs vs Meridian-type trains, Mk3s are excellent vehicles (the best ever?) and can be refurbished to a high standard.

For example, GNER HSTs have power sockets at almost every seats. I only recently discovered that Pendos only have them at tables!

**Mojo** · 2nd November 2005, 21:08

I *do* like Mk3 coaches, but their downfalls seem to be the draughts and noise (esp when sitting at the end of a coach on a HST doing any sort of reasonable speed) and also the click-clunk from that annoying door.
If they were upgraded (which it is possible) then that would be brilliant, but IMO the Mk1s on the SR, whilst they are the the most reliable trains, they are simply awful to travel on, and aside from blocking off all the doors, fitting aircon and affective heating, as well as other mod-cons would never want me to travel with them.

Great Eastern · 2nd November 2005, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galvanize

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

Is that the truth or what you've decided because of them being used on MML?

Any bid which suggests new trains will be rejected - you can take Greater Anglia and ICEC as the example for that.
The cheapest bid will be one which uses the current stock, anything newer would cost more

Simming · 2nd November 2005, 21:39

The Mark 3s are 25 years + old. They are getting a bit back dated, if you compare them to what trains you can get now on the network. It will be a shame from the Neds point of view, but from a passengers point of view, it will be a move in the right direction.

**yorkie** · 2nd November 2005, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simming

The Mark 3s are 25 years + old. They are getting a bit back dated, if you compare them to what trains you can get now on the network. It will be a shame from the Neds point of view, but from a passengers point of view, it will be a move in the right direction.

Which passengers have you spoken to?

Look at the growth of GNER, who use Mk3s and Mk4s (now all refurbished except for one ex-VT HST set), who on average convey the most passengers per train of all the 'InterCity' TOCs, then look at Virgin who have actually experienced little, if any, growth on the West Coast using Pendolinos.

I've heard some passengers ask if they were in 1st class on refurbished GNER standard class. I've never heard such a comment on a Voyager and I'd be shocked if I did.

I personally find standard class on a GNER HST more comfortable than 1st class on a Virgin Voyager, and I suspect I may not be the only one?

1st November 2005, 20:41	#31
Mojo Muffin head Administrator Join Date: 7 Aug 2005 Location: London W12 Posts: 11,516	If you look at all that wasted space, which seems to come with all these electrical casings and crumple zones, you can see why there's so much. __________________ "Could you provide a sauce please?"

2nd November 2005, 17:00	#33
Sprinter Yellow Arrow chappie Member Join Date: 14 Jun 2005 Location: Walthamstow, London Posts: 281	The Greater Western franchise in my opinion should be retained by First, but I am surprised that bid hasn't gone to teh Competition Commission to be honest, seeing as First also run many bus services in the South West of England, giving them a majority in this area. Stagecoach would stand a good chance at it too, but again with Stagecopach also operating Virgin and South West trains, this may be a cuase for concern also, especially around Exeter. __________________ "This station is Oval. This train terminates at Edgware via Bank"

2nd November 2005, 17:07	#34
devon_metro Established Member Join Date: 11 Oct 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 7,519	TBH all of this hassle is pointless; the railways would run far better if managed by one larger company! maybe if BR was brought back we might see some 'real' trains returning to our railways. I say bring back BR! __________________ South West Railways

2nd November 2005, 19:38	#39
Mojo Muffin head Administrator Join Date: 7 Aug 2005 Location: London W12 Posts: 11,516	a) How do you know that? b) Most passengers, following from introduction of other new units, as well as the image that the railway needs to get, would rather travel on a /new/ train rather than an /older/ one. I don't want NEx to win because of the mess with one railway, as well as their poor financial record & lack of willingness to provide major investment (c2c excepted) __________________ "Could you provide a sauce please?"

2nd November 2005, 21:08	#42
Mojo Muffin head Administrator Join Date: 7 Aug 2005 Location: London W12 Posts: 11,516	I do like Mk3 coaches, but their downfalls seem to be the draughts and noise (esp when sitting at the end of a coach on a HST doing any sort of reasonable speed) and also the click-clunk from that annoying door. If they were upgraded (which it is possible) then that would be brilliant, but IMO the Mk1s on the SR, whilst they are the the most reliable trains, they are simply awful to travel on, and aside from blocking off all the doors, fitting aircon and affective heating, as well as other mod-cons would never want me to travel with them. __________________ "Could you provide a sauce please?"

2nd November 2005, 15:51	#32
Andrew Member Join Date: 7 Jun 2005 Posts: 175	The Greater Western franchise specification is fairly tight. Together with the GW RUS they can pretty much tell anyone what will happen. The company running it will make, IMO, not much difference. So I'd say go back to BR, mainly because there are arguements against First (performance), National Express (one) and Stagecoach (buses, livery, stupid name "Brunel Trains" wasn't it?).

2nd November 2005, 19:15	#38
Galvanize Member Join Date: 8 Jun 2005 Location: South East london Posts: 836	First for me! If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

2nd November 2005, 21:39	#44
Simming Established Member Join Date: 7 Jun 2005 Location: Cornwall Posts: 1,186	The Mark 3s are 25 years + old. They are getting a bit back dated, if you compare them to what trains you can get now on the network. It will be a shame from the Neds point of view, but from a passengers point of view, it will be a move in the right direction. __________________ <- If Carlsberg did train collisions, that would be it, the best in the world Keep Uranium On Ur Rails!