[royaloak]

Oy cheeky bugger, its not my fault I had all this leave to use up by the end of December , I am really missing you, honest

[SWT Driver]

I suppose I should be grateful there's no mistletoe around... Phew!

[royaloak]

oh I will just have to give you a nice big hug when i see you in the mess room

[Drsatan]

Originally Posted by Death

Does anyone reckon we could be seeing a brief return of the 442's and hiring of loco-hauled heritage stock to make up service capacity?

In BR days that would have been possible, but nowadays it's cheaper (and easier) to hire rail replacement buses instead of hiring locomotives, drivers and rolling stock. With rail replacement buses the only loser is the passenger. Most commuters would prefer a ride in a Mk2 air con behind a 67 as opposed to a coach which would get stuck in all the attendant chaos on the roads.

[thefab444]

Originally Posted by Death

Does anyone reckon we could be seeing a brief return of the 442's and hiring of loco-hauled heritage stock to make up service capacity?

I bloody well hope not, last thing we need when it's already a farce is some piece of heritage crap failing on the mainline.

[yorksrob]

Originally Posted by Drsatan

That's a nice idea mate, although there's only one SR DEMU registered for main-line use today, which is a class 201 (Hastings line DEMU). To use it in regular passenger service, even if SWT leased it from a spot-hire company, there would be all manner of bureaucratic hurdles to leap across, so that idea, for the time being, would be a non-starter. I remember reading that during a particularly severe winter in 1991 where the snow overtopped the conductor rail, meaning that no 3rd rail units could run, BR simply used any available diesel locomotives to drag stricken units to their destinations. I don't think that would be possible today because in order to drag a desiro, any locomotive would need a translator wagon because the desiros use Dellner couplers, and there aren't many translator wagons around anyway. Secondly, SWT would have to pay the FOCs/ spot-hire companies fairly hefty leasing fees; it would be (unfortunately for the passenger) cheaper to hire replacement buses.

And yes, I believe the "Thumpers" were powered by a single 680bhp English Electric engine, which isn't much when called upon to move two or three carriages. Because I've never traveled on a "Thumper" I can't really vouch for their performance, other than that they probably were underpowered.

As far as I'm aware, the 201 is kitted out with such modern niceties as central door locking particularly so it can be hired out for main line operation. I believe from a previous thread it's also exempt from some of the Mk 1 restrictions as the outer carriages are partly taken up with the engine rooms. DEMU's were often used in the 80's on electric lines in heavy snow

[MrC]

Originally Posted by Death

Does anyone reckon we could be seeing a brief return of the 442's...

My favourites to drive but not the best of units in slippery conditions - all that power in one relatively light coach does not make for rapid progress

Even worse if you got 2017 before it was emasculated as it could out-drag a 450 from a stand and was a real handful on anything but a perfectly dry rail.

Happy days

[Tom C]

I bloody well hope not, last thing we need when it's already a farce is some piece of heritage crap failing on the mainline.

You mean the "heritage crap" which is tried and tested in severe weather. As opposed to the modern crap which doesn't work at all?.

[thefab444]

Originally Posted by Tom C

As opposed to the modern crap which doesn't work at all?.

I don't know where this is coming from, the main problem for SWT, as far as I was lead to believe, was units freezing to the conductor rail. This wouldn't have happened with heritage muck then?

I'd sooner take a Desiro on 364 days of the year than a Slammer on 365 days. People bleat about the old trains being better, but these are the same people who bleated about how the Slammers were a disgrace etc. (I'm more referring to slightly educated pax, rather than anyone on here).

[MrC]

Originally Posted by Tom C

You mean the "heritage crap" which is tried and tested in severe weather. As opposed to the modern crap which doesn't work at all?.

Hmm more rose tinted specs. Back when the '57s and '63s were introduced they were apparently diabolical (this from a now sadly deceased neighbour who was involved with TPO stock and who worked alongside the BR design, build and implementation teams). It took /years/ to work out all the bad design, poor workmanship (no unit was identical) and iffy materials. By the time we got our hands on them all they were a bit like grandfather's axe. And if you think mk.1 emus were good in bad weather then you've a strange definition of 'good'.

And I've not yet seen the Desiros 'not work at all'. At least modern units tend to put their hands up and say 'enough' before terminal damage is caused. The old stock used to soldier on until they were so damaged they'd be out of circulation for weeks afterwards. People tend to forget the number of old Mk.1 emus that would literally go up in flames after a long session of hand-notching to avoid wheelslip.

[GodAtum]

Are there any slam-door trains still in operation on mainline services?

[Tom C]

I don't know where this is coming from, the main problem for SWT, as far as I was lead to believe, was units freezing to the conductor rail. This wouldn't have happened with heritage muck then?

Yes it would have happened with the "heritage muck". The difference is the modern crap stops working with a little bit of ice whereas the "heritage muck" didn't.

I'd sooner take a Desiro on 364 days of the year than a Slammer on 365 days. People bleat about the old trains being better, but these are the same people who bleated about how the Slammers were a disgrace etc. (I'm more referring to slightly educated pax, rather than anyone on here).

Now I would rather not take a Desiro at all. Having worked around and used them for the best part of 30 years, my opinion is that they were better in just about every area. I for one have never advocated there withdrawl and I doubt I ever will but perhaps thats because I am only slightly educated.

Hmm more rose tinted specs. Back when the '57s and '63s were introduced they were apparently diabolical (this from a now sadly deceased neighbour who was involved with TPO stock and who worked alongside the BR design, build and implementation teams). It took /years/ to work out all the bad design, poor workmanship (no unit was identical) and iffy materials. By the time we got our hands on them all they were a bit like grandfather's axe. And if you think mk.1 emus were good in bad weather then you've a strange definition of 'good'

And I've not yet seen the Desiros 'not work at all'. At least modern units tend to put their hands up and say 'enough' before terminal damage is caused. The old stock used to soldier on until they were so damaged they'd be out of circulation for weeks afterwards. People tend to forget the number of old Mk.1 emus that would literally go up in flames after a long session of hand-notching to avoid wheelslip.

Well, thats a totally different story from the ones who I work with who were also around when they were introduced. You will struggle to find a member of staff at Lovers Walk or Selhurst who have worked with them as Guards, Drivers or worked on them who have a bad word to say about them.

As for bad weather well I have never seen services being so drastically hit by what was in reality a bit of snow. Whilst they did suffer from "over exersion" its certainly better than a 377 going into load shed on the Brighton mainline and staying there for the best part of a day forcing everything to come to a complete halt which is what happened the other day. I can't say I ever saw that happen with a 400. I can remember when the weather was particuarly dreadful about 10 years ago catching a 400 to Lewes for a connection to Newhaven to go to Dieppe and there was not a single problem. The train arrived at East Croydon bang on time, got to Lewes bang on time and caught my connection which was.......bang on time. But the important thing was the train didn't go bang. I also came back the same evening and the weather had worsened but the service hadn't.

Nothing works perfectly in ice and snow but in my opinion we didn't have to build an ark.

As for rose tinted specs, you are absolutely right. I have no shame in saying that I hanker for the good old days because in my opinion things were better in the good old days.

Guess its a case of agree to disagree.

[MCR247]

Originally Posted by GodAtum

Are there any slam-door trains still in operation on mainline services?

HSTs, Sleepers, LHCS

[royaloak]

Originally Posted by MrC

. At least modern units tend to put their hands up and say 'enough' before terminal damage is caused.

Not like the 444 Driving coach that was out for 10 months, being completely re-wired, or the 450 Driving coach that was out for 7 months after going up in the snow last January.
I do see what you are saying though, but a 455 will keep going (with care) when a Disastro will refuse to move.

[yorksrob]

Originally Posted by CeliaDrummond

I don't know where this is coming from, the main problem for SWT, as far as I was lead to believe, was units freezing to the conductor rail. This wouldn't have happened with heritage muck then?

I'd sooner take a Desiro on 364 days of the year than a Slammer on 365 days. People bleat about the old trains being better, but these are the same people who bleated about how the Slammers were a disgrace etc. (I'm more referring to slightly educated pax, rather than anyone on here).

Rest assured, I'd sooner take a slammer EVERY day of the week - and I used to say so even when there were still plenty about