[LMS6202]

Having seen some pictures of this new subsurface stock I quite like the looks of it both exterior and interior. However I think the cab is all wrong. Why, when most drivers are right handed, have they put the TBC on the left? This seems to me to be a no brainer in the same way that the C69 stock were cackhanded and awkward to drive. The only other thing I have against the new stock is that they are built by Bombardier and therefore will be utter rubbish.

What's your take on the new trains?

[Daniel]

I think many people's opinion on the S stock will be rather limited on it, as it's not been in service.

I believe the idea of having the TBC on the left is that it is fixed, so you can sit or stand whilst using it. Although, that said, with the A stock's position you could sit or stand..

[Drsatan]

Originally Posted by LMS6202

I quite like the looks of it both exterior and interior. The only other thing I have against the new stock is that they are built by Bombardier and therefore will be utter rubbish.

What's your take on the new trains?

The interior looks nice, but the examples used on the Metropolitan line should have more seats. An 8 car formation only has 308 seats compared to an A-stock's 448. Many passengers will travel on an S-stock train used on the Metropolitan for longer than on most LU lines so more seating is preferable, unless TfL doesn't mind more standing passengers and more bad press. I read in Private Eye that the S-stock trains would have line-specific seating configurations but this was dropped on grounds of cost. In addition, Baker Street - Aylesbury, according to the same issue of Private Eye, will now be reduced to half-hourly in return for a half-hourly (or similar) Aldgate - Chesham service because 8-car S stock trains are too long for the bay platform at Chalfont & Latimer, and following the fiasco surrounding the collapse of Metronet, the possibility of extending the bay platform there's been shelved.

I'm sorry if this is unwarranted speculation but the above information was gleaned from the ' Signal Failures' column of an edition of Private Eye produced last year.

Remember that although Bombardier have made a couple of cock-ups, for instance the 220s/221s, (although it was partly Virgin XC's fault for not ordering them with enough coaches, and the SRA/DafT's fault for not sanctioning an additional order of centre coaches to augment the Voyager fleet), and the 357 'Electrostars', they have produced some of privatisation's best trains, like the 375/377 fleet and the 170s without too much fuss. Compare that with the late delivery and continued unreliability of the 180s (although they're still damn nice trains, and probably my favourite DMU ) built by Alstom.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Drsatan

I read in Private Eye that the S-stock trains would have line-specific seating configurations but this was dropped on grounds of cost. In addition, Baker Street - Aylesbury, according to the same issue of Private Eye, will now be reduced to half-hourly in return for a half-hourly (or similar) Aldgate - Chesham service because 8-car S stock trains are too long for the bay platform at Chalfont & Latimer.

I think you mean Amersham being reduced to halfhourly, LU don't go to Aylesbury. This is correct though, and there were two rather extensive consultations over a year ago, one for Chesham, regarding withdrawing of the of the peak-through service which was largely rejected, and one regarding the withdrawl of the shuttle.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ive/11185.aspx

[LMS6202]

I think TfL are in for a bit of hassle with the "S" stock myself. The pax north of HH will certainly have something to say about the lack of seats and non opening windows. Look back at the furore that they had with "D" stock having no opening vents. As the folk out in the sticks of Amersham, Chesham etc will have contacts in high places I dare say that TfL/Bombardier will have to do a serious mod on these trains. Not to mention driver resistance if they don't like the wagons either.

Also I can't understand why they have only chosen 7/8 car units. Firstly 7 cars on the so-called Circle line will have a lot of bother with pull downs between High street and Edgware Road when folk at the back of the train couldn't get out and the train moves before they realise that they should have moved forward. They should have stuck to 6/7 car rakes and then all trains would have fitted the platforms of the route they are on. I am not sure if there isn't an EU directive that says all doors on Metro systems should be open at stations they call at for safety reasons which stomps on the 7 car circle trains. Having ****ed on TfL's fire I will wait and see what happens.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by LMS6202

and non opening windows.

...because they have 'real' air conditioning...

[LMS6202]

Originally Posted by Daniel

...because they have 'real' air conditioning...

Yes maybe they do. But I'd lay a small bet that there will still be complaint's about the fact that the windows don't open lad. If there is one thing I learnt when working or travelling on trains north of HH is that no matter what the weather somebody and sometimes several somebody's would open a window. Another thing will be the lack of high back rests to the seats. I still look forward to the fun.

What has happened here is a lack of DEEP consultation of the travellers in question. They have/are building these trains to a spec that is not flexible without really consulting the users at all.

[A60K]

Originally Posted by LMS6202

I am not sure if there isn't an EU directive that says all doors on Metro systems should be open at stations they call at for safety reasons which stomps on the 7 car circle trains.

There is no such directive, either for metro or mainline systems. It's certainly not an ideal solution, but without a significant amount of extra investment in rebuilding stations it's the only way of increasing the capacity of the trains.

[jonmorris0844]

Originally Posted by LMS6202

Yes maybe they do. But I'd lay a small bet that there will still be complaint's about the fact that the windows don't open lad.

Maybe, but then you simply educate them and explain how air conditioning works. As people have air conditioning at work and in their car, I am sure most will understand and everyone else should only need to be told once!

The windows will almost certainly be openable by the use of a key in an emergency though.

[LMS6202]

Originally Posted by jonmorris0844

The windows will almost certainly be openable by the use of a key in an emergency though.

Or by a well placed boot when stuck in a sweltering tunnel during disruptions no doubt.

[jonmorris0844]

Well yes, but these are brand new trains so the air conditioning shouldn't fail.

Oh wait; Bombardier....! Perhaps the windows will fall out by themselves!

[LMS6202]

Originally Posted by jonmorris0844

Well yes, but these are brand new trains so the air conditioning shouldn't fail.

Oh wait; Bombardier....! Perhaps the windows will fall out by themselves!

Actually aircon on a metro system is rather a waste of cash given that doors open and close on a average of 2 minutes generally [except on Met fasts] so whatever advantage aircon has in nullified

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by LMS6202

Or by a well placed boot when stuck in a sweltering tunnel during disruptions no doubt.

I don't actually *think* it has openable windows - but I'm not sure.

But, whatever the weather, those at the north end of the met will always complain about something =)

[jonmorris0844]

I bet there are a number of windows in each carriage that can be opened with a key. I think any modern train will have these, allowing a guard (or driver?) to come through and open them if a train is stuck and starts heating up. It's obviously not just temperature either, as there needs to be fresh air to breathe!

[bengley]

The train which is at Neaden is reportedly broken at the moment. Probably just teething problems, but I have no doubt that it will be delayed and won't be in service from September.

I was told by a Met driver that the A stock has another 25 years in it.